peterr
Posts: 5971
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| Posted: 10/01/2008, 2:37 AM |
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Hello,
The CCS 4.1 was updated again today to resolve couple minor and one major PHP issue reported by one of CCS users. Here is the new update:
http://support.yessoftware.com/updates.asp or http://download2.yessoftware.com/CCStudio4_1.exe
It is very important that you upgrade to this version if you are using any previous CCS version 4.1.x.
There is still a potential problem with menus that may stop working properly when the following syntax is removed from a page:
<! DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "- / / W3C / / DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional / / EN" "http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/loose.dtd">
If your menu doesn't work properly please try adding the above line into the HTML.
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Peter R.
YesSoftware Forums Moderator
For product support please visit http://support.yessoftware.com |
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FERAD
Posts: 51
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| Posted: 10/01/2008, 11:50 AM |
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It is nice to see Yes Software being responsive to the support issues. 
Although we are still having some programming issues, I am very pleased with the latest updates and continue to look forward to future enhancements. Great job!
FERAD
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princal
Posts: 19
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| Posted: 10/01/2008, 1:30 PM |
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I am deeply concerned about the current development of CCS V 4.x. I have been a user of CCS when it was still code charge and in the past have been very pleased. This latest bug was a significant security flaw and should NEVER have been released. I have many projects that have been damaged and required significant rewriting due to flawed upgrade processes and corrupted html, javascript and php code. I appreciate that support is responding but I think that Yes Software needs to be more responsible in testing and debugging. The need for three upgrades in less than a week is completely unacceptable.
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Vasiliy
Posts: 378
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| Posted: 10/02/2008, 6:54 AM |
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princal,
it's an old triangle: features-quality-time. Pick two. 
So, every developer have to balance resources spent on development and QA.
More investment in QA - less new features.
Also, from my experience - simpler the product, easier the support.
Over last years Yes created a complex product (which IMO should cost more than $500).
IMO it is acceptable and normal in the industry when complex products sometimes have serious bugs ... considering features-quality-time rule.
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Vasiliy |
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RonB
Posts: 228
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| Posted: 10/06/2008, 5:25 AM |
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re: vasiliy
I really disagree. It should never be acceptable. In general companies like Yes, microsoft etc etc make money from the product. If wheels fell of a car you would not be so forgiving. I'm not saying this specific about Yes. The have been great so far. It's just the principle of the thing that bothers me. If you buy a product it should work as advertised. If it contains serious errors the company creating the software should be responsible for the quality of their work. We have accepted this strange standard for far to long. My customers are breathing down my neck if I do not produce quality work and rightly so!
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Vasiliy
Posts: 378
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| Posted: 10/06/2008, 6:03 AM |
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Ron,
I respect your opinion and agree when we discuss simple projects.
For simple projects it's much easier to keep a high-quality work.
More complex the project - higher the possibility to make a mistake and pass this mistake as a bug into a release.
If you noticed, Yes released several builds in a short period of time.
Regression testing for every build is a time consuming procedure, and probably (my guess) for last build testers had just unit testing for bug fix(es).
In complex product small fix in one module of the application can pop-up as a bug in a different module, which was not unit-tested. In this case testers can not know what modules of the app may be affected by a bug fix. Only developers, who know the interrelation of modules, can tell where else to check for possible bugs.
Bottom line: as a perfectionist I'd agree with you, as a realist - I have a different opinion.
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Vasiliy |
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Oper
Posts: 1195
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| Posted: 10/06/2008, 7:28 AM |
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even i agree with must of you.
My adviced no matter what software are you using
dont rush a new version into a Production (plain and simple)
Test then go ahead....................... (if you dont have the time to test then wait for it)
Theren are many people that must of the time do the Beta and test.
Lot of people love to test new version. (including me)
This time i havent have time even to download, so i dont know how clean on ASP/ASP.NET is.
but i will do my test before launching into a Production Project.
just my 2cp
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http://www.7bz.com (Free CMS,CRM Developed in CCS)
http://www.PremiumWebTemplate.com
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kevind
Posts: 251
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| Posted: 10/06/2008, 10:30 AM |
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I'm just about to push forward into using 4.1.x for all my projects.
Is it 'ready' for designing production systems? I'm a small shop and don't want to spend time which should be 'profit' to fight with applications.
All my apps. are ASP and MS Access or SQL Server
thanks for feedback
Kevin
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thanks
Kevin
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CCS 3.2.x / ASP / MS Access /mySQL / PHP / jQuery / jQuery UI / jQuery Mobile
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JimmyCrackedCorn
Posts: 583
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| Posted: 10/06/2008, 11:42 AM |
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Quote kevind:
Is it 'ready' for designing production systems? I'm a small shop and don't want to spend time which should be 'profit' to fight with applications.
I have the same question. I'm using 4.01.00.06 and it is working OK; it has some issues but I generally know what to expect. I don't want to take any risks or deal with any new issues right now!
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Walter Kempees...you are dearly missed. |
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Stanj
Posts: 166
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| Posted: 10/06/2008, 4:28 PM |
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As with all systems, reliability decreases non-linearly with the increase in interactions according to information theory. A system twice the number of interconnections might be 1/4 as reliable. As CCS gets more complex we have to expect testing becomes gradulally signifficantly more difficult, more costly and requiring a longer period of time. By greatly increasing the price, and the time between updates Yes could deliver a product with fewer initial defects, some of those defects are very limited in their affected base due to unusual combinations of language, dbs, uses etc.
At what point of guarantees of higher liability of releases would we balk? Say for double the price and double time between updates, would it be acceptable for a 25% decrease in the defects, most of which affect very few people? What about 10times the price and 10 times the span in time between upgrades to get 90% reduction in initlal defects? Personally, I think Yes has struck a pretty good balance because selling price versus costs and testing. Few of the bugs in 2, 3 or 4.xx had any impact on me over the years and the ones that did seemed to be common enough for it to be easier to reproduce and resulted in quick resolution.
The average new car has 115 defects on delivery, to deliver only 50 defects on average would people really want to pay $100,000 for a typical mid level sedan? No thanks, the easiest way to lower defects is to make the products simpler. Yet consumers regularly reward those manufacturers who stuff their products with complexity over those who simplify.
Every one seems to bash Microsoft for buggy software but at the same time fail to realize they spend more on testing than any company ever. The defects are directly related to the complexity, much of which was demanded by consumers. Vista probably had fewer bugs per
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Stan
St Petersburg Russia |
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kevind
Posts: 251
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| Posted: 10/07/2008, 6:17 AM |
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thanks for the feedback - i've already purchased 4.x and downgraded to 3.x due to the msgs on the forum about the headaches of 4. this is not about the expense of purchasing or YES' software QA or support
can someone who has moved from 3 to 4 indicate whether their projects got chewed up in the process (ASP events, javascript) - i'm less interested in results from those who started using CCS at version 4 without the experience of converting projects forward from prior versions
thanks
Kevin
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thanks
Kevin
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CCS 3.2.x / ASP / MS Access /mySQL / PHP / jQuery / jQuery UI / jQuery Mobile
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Oper
Posts: 1195
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| Posted: 10/07/2008, 2:41 PM |
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HTML and Java Function were changed hardcore
right now we dont have any project in 3
if you changed some grey part (as we do sometime) Bad but needit in our case
then change those again
my suggestion Again: Do a test with your Project and you decide when to go foward
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FERAD
Posts: 51
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| Posted: 10/16/2008, 10:10 AM |
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When can we expect to see the next update???
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FERAD
Posts: 51
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| Posted: 10/21/2008, 7:41 AM |
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I have sent many support issues to Yes Software regarding CCS. Unfortunately our customers are not as patient and need to have results. Because of this we had to discontinue development with asp.net C# with inmotion framework until these issues have been resolved. AJAX, Artisteer menus and buttons, documentation and examples are major concerns. Also Yes Software keeps letting me know that these problems we have submitted have been reproducable on their end. Developers will work on this problem to resolve it.
I would rather see Yes Software put out frequent small fixes than wait for the big one that we still have to bug find and then keep going through this crazy circle of wait and see.
When can we expect to see the next update???
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Vasiliy
Posts: 378
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| Posted: 10/22/2008, 2:45 PM |
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> I would rather see Yes Software put out frequent small fixes ...
It's difficut to to issue "frequent small fixes" because any small fix can bring new bugs. So, event small fixes require testing and we are back to catch 22.
Something positive:
Yes, we migrated in September to v4.x. Tested - np.
Big clients still test our web-app on their UAT env, so far no problems.
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miron
Posts: 16
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| Posted: 11/09/2008, 8:53 PM |
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Are there any indications on when can we expect next version with currant issue fixes?
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