niwicp
Posts: 32
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| Posted: 01/31/2009, 3:07 AM |
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I've been using CCS since version 3 and found it very useful. I chose it after evaluating several other frameworks both open source and commercial. Last year I bought version 4 but didn't use it till few weeks ago since my main projects are already developed with version 3.2 which is quite stable and reliable after the fix of some minor issues.
Since we're now redesigning one of our bigger applications I thought it could be a good occasion to move it to CCS 4.1 and use some of its new features and hopefully even greater stability. So launched it let it convert the project and started to develop. After a couple of minor changes to a page the html had disappeared and there were no way to get it back! This scared me enough to leave the idea of migration.
This week a customer asked me for a very simple project so I thought this is the right occasion to test CCS 4 with a simple application starting from scratch. So I created the tables (by the way I've always used PHP and MySQL) launched the application generator and started modifying the pages. After renaming a text label and the translation of the related sorter I published the page and ... the column had disappeared! I can see it in CCS, I can edit its properties but even republishing I can't see it. I made several tests but nothing!
Oh, during my spare time I also created a simple application to keep track of books me and my family read and movies we see, I used CCS 4 and found no particular problems, I've also used the AJAX auto complete even if unfortunately it's unable to save the id of the related table and this makes it quite useless in real world applications.
So is CCS 4 reliable? I don't think so but let me know your experience.
When I'm finished with this post I'll reopen CCS 3.2 and develop the application with it.
Nicola
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damian
Posts: 838
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| Posted: 01/31/2009, 4:01 AM |
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i havent really used any of the new features in ccs 4 but am using it on several new projects - nothing overly complex though
i just have the odd crash (like just about everyone else)
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E43509
Posts: 283
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| Posted: 01/31/2009, 9:04 AM |
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I haven't been able to get any of the AJAX stuff to work reliably or at all. I code primary in CF and adding in any of those AJAX elements breaks the base pages.
I have had in support tickets with YES for several weeks and no resolution.
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ReneS
Posts: 225
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| Posted: 01/31/2009, 9:23 AM |
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So basically all the extra's in version 4 are unstable and quite useless??
I thought it was me and a lack of documentation............
Rene
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davidwoo
Posts: 53
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| Posted: 01/31/2009, 2:21 PM |
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That's why I am still using version 3.2. 
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FERAD
Posts: 51
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| Posted: 01/31/2009, 3:28 PM |
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Same problem here. Since the upgrade to version 4xx we have had many issues of things not working as expected. I must admit things are slowly getting better, but am not sure how long I can wait for Yes Software to come out with a stable version that works as they say.
Since 4.1 I have commited to using .Net C# with inmotion Framework. Have had some successes but many issues unresolved. Come to the conclusion it is better to start a clean project instead of trying to upgrade from an earlier version. Especially if changing from one code language to another. When converting from PHP To C#.NET IMF all the manual code disappears. The autocomplete feature also does not work.
I guess from a marketting perspective they made many sales on commitments that yet are to be seen. I was really excited to see that they added Captcha in 4.1.0.32 only to find out later that they decided to removed and re-released it again instead of fix. One step forward, two steps back. Wiki, Joomla, Artisteer and many other talked about solutions appear then disappear again without any mentioned plans, timelines or anything.
Peter has reassured us that C# with inmotion framework was the way to go. I believe that, but we need a product that can deliver results. The example, "IssueManager" there is not much modification a basic out of the box program. We have also checked out the inmotion framework on google only to find that much of the info is getting very old with no new advancements. Yes Software does not even have Example Pack 2 working with C#.NET IMF (it is low on there priority list). Also, on the forum there are many postings for PHP, ASP .NET but when it come to C#.NET IMF the responses almost completely disappear.
Yes Software does not want us to post bugs/issues on the forum. I imagine that he knows of the many issues and does not want any bad feedback. As a user, many many hours have been spent troubleshooting issues which point back to the CCS. Maybe Yes should pay for bug finding... 
As a respectable person, I have submitted several cases to support. Some dumb questions, some due to lack of complete documentation and examples, some bugs... If Yes Software was clear with documentation and efficient code most of this would not exist for all of us.
Here are a list of some of the cases, some resolved, some disappear into the "Black Hole" (we'll investigate the problem you reported. We'll contact you when solution is available) .
983935264, 983935215, 983935561, 983935725, 983935726,
983936220, 983936247, 983936491, 983936522, 983936505,
983936738, 983936703, 983936738, 983936903, 983936907,
983936906, 983936949, 983936989, 983937027, 983937102,
983937230, 983937608, 983937621, 983937622, 983937608,
983938088, 983938285, 983938435, 983938378, 983938429,
983938374, 983937814, 983938445, 983938435
On the plus side, I am still using 4.1.0.32 C#.Net IMF knowing that it will crash, change keyboard keys, no autocomplete, AJAX errors, many reboots, rebuild of projects and pages, and a lot of outside the box resolutions to problems. At least for now knowing its limitations as a complete and working solution. Anything requiring much custom coding is still done in PHP like the majority of users.
May this help other developers with there struggles. If we all work together as the initial intent of this forum (and if Yes listens and responds) we all win. 
FERAD
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damian
Posts: 838
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| Posted: 02/01/2009, 12:16 AM |
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hi Ferad - i'm pretty sure that with all versions of ccs when you change languages the custom code needs to be re-done... you do custom code for things that ccs cant do - so expecting ccs to be able to interpret your code and re-wite in another language is probably ambitious :)
i personally think that supporting so many languages probably slows/inhibits the development of the software  cant be all things to all people and trying to is setting yourself up for trouble...
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fmbma
Posts: 58
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| Posted: 02/01/2009, 12:13 PM |
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I have a very large asp project that started in CCS 2.0 and has made the transition to 3, 4, and now 4.1 pretty well. A few bumps along the way, but overall I'm satisfied.
However, I've tried a few small projects in .net (Vb) both with and without Inmotion, and found CCS to be a really poor .net development environment. It's actually faster and easier to work in directly Visual Studio, especially if I am putting business logic in.
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ckroon
Posts: 869
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| Posted: 02/01/2009, 1:21 PM |
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I work with CCS 4 in PHP Mysql and have no problems.
I would love to learn Net and Inmotion in the future... so hopefully Yes focuses on that area.
I have no complaints about CCS save for the lack of documentation/examples and slow updates.
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Walter Kempees...you are dearly missed. |
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Stanj
Posts: 166
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| Posted: 02/02/2009, 7:07 AM |
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I must be lucky, using PHP, I've found everything I have tried works. I did have a problem earlier in losing HTML occasionally when trying to move controls in a form but that has been taken care of.
My only wish list item would be more and better examples for the AJAX features. Those that I do use work well. The UpDate Panel is very useful and easy to use. Overall I have very happy with CCS4.
The promised wiki would be nice also. I only use PHP so that might be the the key to my satisfaction.
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Stan
St Petersburg Russia |
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niwicp
Posts: 32
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| Posted: 02/02/2009, 7:33 AM |
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After reading the above replies it seems the majority of people agree with me, that's not surprise but I'm not pleased about. I opened this thread just to know if I was unlucky or had a bad configured machine and spur Yes Software to improve their product.
Since there are also happy happy (lucky?) users I think that for a better understanding of the situation and to help Yes Software it would be useful if next replies would contain the following information:
- do you have more than one CCS version installed on your development machine (i.e. CCS 3.x and 4.x)?
- development languages used
- do you use actions?
- do you write custom code?
- windows version and service pack level
- do you write localized applications?
Nicola
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E43509
Posts: 283
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| Posted: 02/02/2009, 8:02 AM |
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Quote : do you have more than one CCS version installed on your development machine (i.e. CCS 3.x and 4.x)?
Yes 2.x, 3.x, 4.x
Quote : development languages used
Primarily Cold Fusion, some asp.net (vb)
Quote :do you use actions?
All the time
Quote :do you write custom code?
All the time but have sample projects in 4.x that have no actions or custom code and they are unable to do the ajax
Quote :windows version and service pack level
Wxp Sp3
Quote :do you write localized applications?
no
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Stanj
Posts: 166
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| Posted: 02/02/2009, 10:19 PM |
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Quote niwicp:
- do you have more than one CCS version installed on your development machine (i.e. CCS 3.x and 4.x)?
- development languages used
- do you use actions?
- do you write custom code?
- windows version and service pack level
- do you write localized applications?
Nicola
Since so many people are reporting problems this is a good idea to find out if there are common elements to the fault mechanisms:
1. No, only CCS4, always latest version
2. PHP exclusively
3. Yes, on every form
4. Yes, on every page
5. Vista Ultimate sp1
6. No
No serious problems with above configuraton
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Stan
St Petersburg Russia |
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MaFi
Posts: 49
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| Posted: 02/03/2009, 1:35 AM |
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Quote niwicp:
- do you have more than one CCS version installed on your development machine (i.e. CCS 3.x and 4.x)?
- development languages used
- do you use actions?
- do you write custom code?
- windows version and service pack level
- do you write localized applications?
- Yes CCS 2.x, 3.2 and 4.1
- Primarily Cold Fusion 5 and 8, some php
- Yes
- Yes, on most pages
- Windows XP prof. SP 3
- Yes, mainly German and English
No major problems, but CCS 3.2 is still the most stable version.
Regards Martin
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niwicp
Posts: 32
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| Posted: 02/03/2009, 2:02 AM |
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Please also remember to write a brief description about the problems you found.
Nicola
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damian
Posts: 838
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| Posted: 02/03/2009, 3:31 AM |
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Multiple versions - CCS 2.x, 3.2 and 4.1
- PHP Only
- Actions
- Custom Code
- Vista SP1
- No, English only
No major problems
Damian
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feha
Posts: 712
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| Posted: 02/03/2009, 6:41 AM |
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Quote niwicp:
- do you have more than one CCS version installed on your development machine (i.e. CCS 3.x and 4.x)?
- development languages used
- do you use actions?
- do you write custom code?
- windows version and service pack level
- do you write localized applications?
Nicola
- yes, 3.2 and 4.1
- i use more my own custom code
- all the time
- Vista Ultimate (SP1) 64 bit-s.
-yes
I really don't like latest additions as Ajax, yahoo framework, css menus etc ...
I consider this not needed stuff that just brings instability , there is no need either for built in captcha etc ...
I wish the CCS could handle multipple checkboxes, listboxes and many to many realtions by builders as this is a much more needed in development than complicated css menus that does not work properly ...
Instead of JS and css menus just provide us to build the unordered multilevel list then let us decide about css to be used in.
So i use CCS4.1 ignoring all other features as Ajax, CSS menus, yahoo tabs ...
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Regards
feha
www.vision.to
feedpixel.com |
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datadoit
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| Posted: 02/03/2009, 3:10 PM |
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feha wrote:
> So i use CCS4.1 ignoring all other features as Ajax, CSS menus,
yahoo tabs ...
>
So i use CCS3.2 ignoring all other features of 4.1 as Ajax, CCS menus,
yahoo tabs ...
;)
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feha
Posts: 712
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| Posted: 02/03/2009, 3:20 PM |
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There are some good features as improved search builder in v4 ...
Also they are not going to update v3.2 
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Regards
feha
www.vision.to
feedpixel.com |
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duplo1
Posts: 67
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| Posted: 02/03/2009, 6:16 PM |
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We have been using CCS 4.x / ASP.net C#/ Inmotion from the first day, and except for some minor headaches at the beginning we are very delighted with it. There used to be problems with Upload and FCKeditor, but they have been resolved.
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laneoc
Posts: 154
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| Posted: 02/03/2009, 8:18 PM |
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My IDE still crashes about once per 2 hours of usage with 4.1.
With 3.x it crashed about once per day.
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Lane |
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JimmyCrackedCorn
Posts: 583
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| Posted: 02/03/2009, 8:20 PM |
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Quote niwicp:
- do you have more than one CCS version installed on your development machine (i.e. CCS 3.x and 4.x)?
- development languages used
- do you use actions?
- do you write custom code?
- windows version and service pack level
- do you write localized applications?
1) yes, 3.1 and 4.1
2) ASP only
3) yes
4) always
5) XP SP2
6) no
I find CCS to be an amazing tool that saves me tremendous amounts of time but I am extremely careful with it as I find it to be somewhat fragile. And it is not documented well enough.
Quite a few times I have worked for several hours carefully crafting a page and then have a whole section "lose its brains" or forget what type of component it is. Then I have to go through the entire setup again for that section. And it has happened often enough that I can confidently rule out a mistake by me in the code view. This is something that just happens from time to time. Now I ALWAYS save my pages multiple times at each stage of development. And, any time I open a project to do any editing I first make a complete backup in case something goes haywire.
I don't mean to make it sound like this happens all the time because it does not. But, even having this happen occasionally negates much of the benefit of a code generator!
As someone else already said, I'd much prefer that Yes work on overall stability and documentation instead of adding any new features. Especially new features that any moderately experienced web developer could add on their own anyway! I'd like CCS to be the absolute best database/code generator (CRUD) and leave out the things unrelated to database that we can add ourselves.
And don't even get me started on documentation!!!! It is not great or good and arguably barely adequate. Yes have promised a wiki in response to requests that they improve the docs but we don't have that yet either. My personal preference is improve the docs and forget the wiki until the baseline is established for the documentation.
OK, so that's my take. Just to be clear, I LOVE CCS and will continue to use it whether they address these issues or not. (At least until/unless I find a tool with comparable features and better stability/documentation!)
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Walter Kempees...you are dearly missed. |
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will
Posts: 88
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| Posted: 02/20/2009, 7:04 PM |
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- do you have more than one CCS version installed on your development machine (i.e. CCS 3.x and 4.x)?
- development languages used
- do you use actions?
- do you write custom code?
- windows version and service pack level
- do you write localized applications?
1) yes, 4.1 full & Zend Studios
2) php, asp, vb, java
3) yes
4) always
5) Vistia Ultimate 64
6) yes
I am starting to figure out that 4.1 is not as good as 3.2 like for instance we have buttons like captcha that dont even work but are in there the menu builder is a lost cause never works right I built a menu and it dont work so i am sure it will be awhile before support responds, but when building menus or anything sometimes stuff just dissappears, it just dont make sense, For example I decided to use the menubuilder today cannot get it to work right submit a ticket and yes i paid for support I mean really ccs is seems to be slipping down hill even the support i submitted a tick 2 days ago still have not heard anything and you know when you pay for it it should be there. I am very close to upgrading to a new app because with the time you spend trying to fix this error and get this to work or get a response from support you could have written a book.
In my opinion styles in ccs are worthless menu builder worless, captcha not even avalible lol
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feha
Posts: 712
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| Posted: 02/21/2009, 1:17 AM |
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I would like to say:
Yessoftware, please give us a web developer tool not a web design one.
Thank you.
Now having Artisteer 2 around, there should be some good integration with CCS.
So please give us more builders with many-to-many relations etc ...
Make it a powerful stable, just a dev tool.
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Regards
feha
www.vision.to
feedpixel.com |
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marcel
Posts: 26
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| Posted: 02/22/2009, 5:04 AM |
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Quote niwicp:
- do you have more than one CCS version installed on your development machine (i.e. CCS 3.x and 4.x)?
- development languages used
- do you use actions?
- do you write custom code?
- windows version and service pack level
- do you write localized applications?
1)no, 4.1
2) PHP only
3) yes
4) as less as possible
5) Vista
6) yes
I agree with JCC, CC is powerfull and elegant. I am not a professional developer as some of you, so I liked extensions such as CCTools (e.g. Googlemaps) and Ajax-support. But in the end most of these functions does not work without a lot of trial-and-error and my own changes or adaptions.
My interest in CC was that I could develop quickly lowcost applications for shorttime use and prototyping to get the right specifications. My customers are in the local government and use systems from a couple of big ICT-companies. But for all the in-between applications CC is great. Especially to deliver systems that replace the use of spreadsheetdata. The advantage of robust generated code is obvious. Some applications I made are used now for many years without problems.
I am at the start to organize cooperation between Dutch CC-developers and want to start a marketingcampaign for the Dutch local government. I want to offer a ICT-buildingbox of CC-components, some of it as open source. It will contain basic functionallity which can be extended by the IT-departments of the customers. I aspect they are capable to enhance the application themselfs with small updates as new reports, extra grid-columns. CC is perfect because it generates code for all major programming languages. So I always intended to use CC in cooperation with the customers.
For my purpose I like integrated functionallity such as menus, webdesign, Artisteer, Googlemaps, etc. But a stable version comes first!
My withdraw is the lack of respons of Yessoftware and the lack of a roadmap.
My wish : Yessoftware, please give us a web developer tool that is stable first, then a good integration of the current extras (Ajax, menus, pagebuilder) and then a web design one.
Marcel
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roeya
Posts: 181
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| Posted: 02/22/2009, 5:54 AM |
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For us CCS 4.1 is stable and works well
We use custom code all over and we use actions, however we almost do not use the built in AJAX , We prefer using jQuery and we add custom JavaScript & Perl code to support it.
We tried some of the built in AJAX but the way it is implemented does not scale well for our applications and it seems to have some in consistent problems (some times it works sometimes it does not, for no apparent reason), however we haven't tried it since 4 was initially released.
We found support was good and provided solution for most of the problems we have found.
Quote :- do you have more than one CCS version installed on your development machine (i.e. CCS 3.x and 4.x)?
No
Quote :- development languages used
Perl
Quote :- do you use actions?
Yes
Quote :- do you write custom code?
Yes
Quote :- windows version and service pack level
Yes
Quote :- do you write localized applications?
Yes
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cclooksgood
Posts: 48
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| Posted: 02/23/2009, 3:39 PM |
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I have been pretty dam happy so far with 4.1 C# IN MOTION (SQL).... that is all I use now so I cannot comment about others.... I have built about 30 easy apps using it.... I started using In Motion before it was released to the general public because we built a big application for JEEP.....
My only problem is the locking and the rebooting, I thought it was my machine (memory) so it is good to hear that it is indeed a CC issue......
I used to IRONSPEED and it costs me a great deal of business.... That software was crazy hard to learn, horrible HTML interface, customization was hard, URL encoding was difficult and if you wanted to hire a "VIP" to do some customization for you they charged a but load....
I highly recommend staying away from Ironspeed, if you want to still use them, I have licensed version I will sell to you for $10.00 :)
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niwicp
Posts: 32
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| Posted: 02/23/2009, 3:57 PM |
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Quote cclooksgood:
I highly recommend staying away from Ironspeed, if you want to still use them, I have licensed version I will sell to you for $10.00 :)
Thank you cclooksgood  but I use PHP!
Nicola
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