computerman
Posts: 27
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| Posted: 05/10/2010, 1:19 PM |
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What is your Idea about using a RAD to "develop" (or "design", depends which one you'd like to use) web applications? Is it something that one should use in crawling ages till learn walking, or do you still find usage of a RAD necessary even after being a PRO ?
For a project that you developed with CCS do you expose it when asked
(that you did it with help of CCS, or another RAD) especially to your clients, w/o feeling of any embarrasment?
or do you prefer to say it is handcoded?
what should be next step for a beginner that started to RIA (Rich Internet Applications) developing with template driven tools? is it healthy for one to start learning web programming with help of a RAD ?
did you ever had a feeling that if that code which you developed, if It was done by completely by you, by hand, would run faster? more optimized? do you find RAD's generated code bloaty?
Some sort of people on Internet chatrooms, forums, (that describe web coding is something to do only with notepad), thinks using RAD, (Studio etc.) kind of programs are degrading and leads laziness, while some says..... (fill the blanks please)
lets discuss if you have a minute or two..
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"whoever is a cruel, must be an old downtrod who has got authority,
whoever is a downtrod, must be an old cruel who has lost authority. "
An Oriental Saying |
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jjrjr1
Posts: 942
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| Posted: 05/10/2010, 1:38 PM |
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Hi
I have no problem letting clients know I use CodeCharge Studio. Using a RAD tool, in my opinion, allows you to develop much more functional web applications since the task of building all the basics is done for you.
I have yet created any web application in CodeCharge Studio (Or other Development tool) where significant coding is not still required to get the desired operation.
All you gotta do is look thru this forum and http://ccselite.com and you will see that most CodeCharge Studio Developers are doing serious coding on top of what CCS generates.
From my experience, CodeCharge Studio is one of the best Application Development Tools I have ever used. With that being said, CCS does have it's problems and can be extreemly frustrating at times. I do expect those issues will be addressed, hopefully soon (nobody really knows when.. so you might gotta save code after every line of code and learn workarounds which is not a trival programming task in itself..  ).
CCS is that tool in your toolbox you love to hate... 
SO.... look at using a tool like CodeCharge Studio as something that allows you to explore greater possibilities in your applications without having to worry about the mundane nuts & bolts of starting any application project.
That's my 2 cents...
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John Real - More CodeCharge Studio Support at - http://CCSElite.com |
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computerman
Posts: 27
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| Posted: 05/10/2010, 1:59 PM |
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I agree completely with you but,
for example: for me, you can even track my first message on this forum from september'09 till time being I have developed myself on CCS a lot , now I can create simple CRUD operation apps with ease, with support of helpful forum users help (like you)
and reading sources myself. Sure it is great,
But because I didn't have basics of php, and mysql (for my example),
now I cannot even tell which function is belongs to PHP and which belongs to CCS,
in other words, I can use it, I can even make minimal custom coding, but I can make all of this only in CCS playground.
but if I run any other open source PHP framework (eclipse etc.),
I just sit next to computer like a rabbit looking to flashlight 
especially those ajax-based eye candy grids, forms, that has great real usability, on-the-fly data fetching technics (while you are scrolling the grid), that "pro look" .. I can only look at them while slurping from far distance while knowing that, I am not capable to create such apps, but limited to only what CCS gives me (that simple HTML table based look ) 
_________________
"whoever is a cruel, must be an old downtrod who has got authority,
whoever is a downtrod, must be an old cruel who has lost authority. "
An Oriental Saying |
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jjrjr1
Posts: 942
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| Posted: 05/10/2010, 2:13 PM |
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Hi Again
CCS generates all its code in PHP, if you have selected that as your target language.
It does also create HTML and Javascript for you but as the Page Template for the PHP code.
The general rule of thumb is that the PHP generated By CCS is in grey space and you should only put your code in custom code blocks that will essentially be displayed as WHITE space.
The same holds basically true in the HTML templates.
If you do not follow that basic rule CCS will not ba able to maintain your pages for you.
But it's all PHP
Make sense??
Make an investment in some PHP coding books.. They might help.
Have fun...
BTW here are some sites done in CCS and Artisteer that can show you some of the power you actually have at your finger tips
http://realsites.biz/RSTheatre.php CCS Integrated with RED5 Flash Media Server
http://realclientthree.com/ CCS & Artisteer WIth Ajax Page retreival (IMages are slow cause they are large images and I have not changed them for this demo. In Production they will be small video camera thumbnails)
http://ccselite.com CCS User Community now built with CCS 4.3 & Artisteer 2.4
Just shows what you can do with CCS.
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John Real - More CodeCharge Studio Support at - http://CCSElite.com |
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computerman
Posts: 27
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| Posted: 05/10/2010, 3:41 PM |
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(While knowing after these my opininons subject will stray from Its origin..but, however.)
I understand all what you tell, but human asks more..worst of that: "human is right" :)
as an experienced developer can you tell me should I expect
such grids from CCS in near future?
http://www.dhtmlx.com/docs/products/dhtmlxGrid/index.shtml?mn
let's say, I know you can get such result as a master, while hand-tweaking the style sheets or adding some js but when you saved that file that you tweaked, every and each time when you load that project in CCS, you will need to spend more and more effort to keep your custom coding in place and working.
To do this, you will be checking that html tab continously at the bottom, you will be replacing those dead Labels (which are CCS considered as invalid and deleted its references due to your hand intervention in html) , Multiply this problem while assuming your project has more than 50 pages.
you will be debugging problems caused with conflict of update panels, or other implemented JS libraries in CCS.
And all those efforts are spent only for keeping a page 'alive'.
From one side, It eases our job, from other side...what It causes ? I don't know.
I appreciate CCS as is, it is a real great piece of work, but also I am in need of seeking a way out to have RAD and not-obselete WYSIWYG WEB authoring tool together.
Because html which CCS generates is 'acceptable' only for consumer who has very less expectations about look.
Maybe it is 'OK' for a school students' db driven grades-keeping application, maybe for train time table of a blurry government website, But surely not for a vivid community web site.
Web application word says itself = web + application both those words should be contemporary.
I unfortunately need to confess that, neither ccselite, nor other projects saw here, not enough to feed my expectations in both visuality and functionality.
Maybe as community of CCS, people here focused too much on our little questions (like "where to put this event", "how to fix this", like I am also desperately doing this oftenly) and cannot see what we miss when compared to "out world".Maybe we cannot see the missing train of Web 2.0, Web 3.0 or whatever actual now.But as a starter I'd like to travel with that train, instead of hanging at bar of train station and listen stories from stoolies.
Maybe this is why, we cannot point developers of this program to correct points, other than function it properly and maybe this is why they cannot see, what should be next step, on what area they should invest.
But I know that, the way CCS generates code, the way CCS generates HTML, I cannot see any prosperity on my projects, if I am about to publish it directly to visitor' usage.
If your aim is frontend apps, to give frontend users' disposal, With this look and functionality, No matter what you create, It just looks naked and not enough functional.
Maybe I am just spending my time on the way of CCS..or I am confused..But including your given examples, I smell that 'something is missing'.
Maybe CCS is created to make people playaround so they can get familiar on main approaches, and they can handcode their own apps.
Maybe CCS is not a tool for direct serving your app to consumer.Maybe should use it in kitchen and like I told above, you should clean up all the mess and skin it as you wish and have your own app. Really I cannot tell.
My only aim to stick with a RAD with minimum coding and minimum need of tidying up the mess.And after spend certain time on learning it, not to have 'something is not supposed to be' feel
I hope one day CCS will be like that.
You see, a lot of 'maybe's and 'hope's, I have.
These all what is in my mind about me, my business, and CCS.
I didn't mean to offend anybody..Deeply sorry If I done that.
_________________
"whoever is a cruel, must be an old downtrod who has got authority,
whoever is a downtrod, must be an old cruel who has lost authority. "
An Oriental Saying |
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jjrjr1
Posts: 942
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| Posted: 05/10/2010, 3:50 PM |
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No offense taken.
What you can do with CCS, or any tool, is only limited by your imagination.
You have valid points about CCS But one can work with it.
I doubt you will find any development tool that will create something without any work.
I appreciate your comments.
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John Real - More CodeCharge Studio Support at - http://CCSElite.com |
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Waspman
Posts: 948
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| Posted: 06/14/2010, 6:53 AM |
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@computerman - What is it you're asking for? I can't imagine anything you can't do with CCS. I often reuse code which I've cut and paste. The speed at which you can develop makes it easy to earn money with it. True building websites isn't right with CCS, but for apps you'd be struggling to find anything better.
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http://www.waspmedia.co.uk |
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