Olimpiu
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| Posted: 09/10/2002, 2:31 PM |
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I'm working with CC2 for a while. My favourites PHP/MySQL. It's free and fast.
I have added many programming features to CC2 pages. I will give a list here. I want to say that I tried CCS and honestly i got confused. I think is to professional for me. Here are my opinions:
CCS:
1. Is to professional. You have to know a lot to work with it.
2. There are many new object properties, but most of them are html objects and properties.
3. I think that the most important thing that CC does is generating by 2-3 clicks one week annoying programming. Not the visual and design feature.
4. Please some one tells me what are the new features over CC2 :))
CC2
1. It’s a simple tool for a beginner user. It’s a practical tool for a sales oriented person not a programmer or developer.
2. There are small bugs regarding the security and other stuff:
- If you look at a product or an add that you posted by changing the url reference you can see other products that are not yours. :)). There is a small function that verifies that, but you have to create it :))
- The general problem regarding CC: multiple columns grid; multiple selection form objects (text box); file upload handling; check box grid and multiple delete or update;
3. If you know a little code programming you can make miracles.
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Larry Boeldt
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| Posted: 09/10/2002, 7:55 PM |
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I agree with Olimpiu on many points.
I've created many a program with Code Charge. I showcase my current projects on http://larry.boeldt.net. Most of the applications were written completely in CC2.
I started a project recently in CCS and man, it was chock full of problems. For starters I had to get the site to cooperate with FrontPage shared borders (not my choice, a requirement). THat's nearly impossible to do with CCS because you have to use a template driven schema. I reverted to CC2 which provides a non template driven ASP model (my favorite choice by far).
Missing from CCS is the ability to create multipage grid and edit forms in a simple manner, and once created work them independantly. CCS will create such forms, but everytime I have to change a grid, it screws up my edit form. I can never customize without loosing my changes, so what's the point of CCS? The fact that I can't preserve my customizations means re-doing those changes each time.
I think the next big part that's missing in CCS is documentation regarding the elaborate schema they created. The beauty of CC2 is that there are relatively few commands, and if you spend time to understand them the rest becomes quite easy. In some ways I disagree with Olimpiu, I think CCS is more of a simple tool than CC2 becuase I've been able to accomplish more elaborate and complicated tasks. However given the learning curve, CC2 is easier to learn and get started.
I was really befuddled by the choice to start with C# for asp.net. When the majority of MS developers are doing VB. I was glad to see that added to CCS, but really, I think they should consider a CC3 before doing anything more with CCS. With that in mind I'm going to push for CC3 on a new thread :)
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Ken
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| Posted: 09/11/2002, 7:58 AM |
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I disagree! CC2 is great for beginners, but so is CCS. It is obvious on this forum a lot of people are trying to use this product that are non programmers. I believe using this product requires having some knowledge of programming to efficiently use the RAD features built into the products. Whether you use CC2 or CCS you need an understanding of basic programming.
The simple truth is that CCS does everything CC2 does and more. It is presented in a different format, that presents a certain level of change and a learning curve. To the application programmer/developer this learning curve is far less than it is to the non programmer.
Personally I think the Code Charge team has made huge imporvements to these products and should be congratulated and commended on the effort that has been put into both of these applications.
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Darius
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| Posted: 09/12/2002, 1:09 PM |
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As i said in an older message, if you are working 40+ hours a week, 30 days a month designing database driven websites, go for CCS. It is great.
If the above statement it is not true for you, forget about CCS. You are waisting your time. Use the CC2. It is greater than CCS in its simplicity, easy to use and small learning curve.
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Larry Boeldt
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| Posted: 09/12/2002, 7:45 PM |
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Geez Ken, didn't have to get so harsh :) (real programmer).
I've been a developer for 15 years, PASCAL, COBOL, VB, RPG, ASP, PHP, mySQL, Oracle, SQL Server, SQL Anywhere, DB2. My only gaping hole is the C/C++ arena. Some of the solutions I've developed have been in place for five or ten years and are running fine to date. So I'm not sure what qualifies a real programmer. You be the judge.
LB
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Darius
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| Posted: 09/13/2002, 4:04 PM |
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Right again Larry Boeldt.
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RonB
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| Posted: 09/14/2002, 9:52 AM |
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I started out with cc2(being smart enough to go for the full package, ensuring I would be getting CCS for free). Ever since CCS came out in beta I stopped using CC2. The reasons are simple.
1. Regenerating a page doesn't distroy my own code.
2. The fexibility in using, let's say, Dreamweaver to edit the html layout is fenomenal. Ading a grid or a record doesn't destroy your custom html but leaves it intact. This is saving me a lot of time compared to the work I did with CC2 where adding a grid meant I had to do my html layout all over again.
3. I can now use several databases on one page without a single piece of handcoding(My company at the moment uses an Oracle, MySQL and solid database) Try doing that with CC2.
4. The learning curve is steeper but the rewards are equaly greater.
There are some drawbacks however:
1. PHP documentation is poor to say the least. CCS is far more object oriented then CC2 ever was so figuring out what every piece of code does is a lot harder without documentation. CC2 has, by comparison, excelent PHP documentation.
2. CCS is still a RAD (even more so then CC2 will ever be) but in the beginning, because of the learning curve, will produce a website slower then CC2. I think even for proffessional programmers because of the lack of documentation.
Still, at the end of the day I can say with a straight face, and lord knows this is not an easy thing to do these days  , that CCS is the way to go. You will run into CC2's limitations fast and I garantee you'll be asking for the features CCS has. Look at the newsgroup and here on gotocode. A lot of people are asking for new features in CC2 that are already present in CCS. Chances are you will not get them in CC2 (and rightly so)because it would undermine CCS as a productline.
I do use CCS in my job and I'm thus able to spend 20+ hours a week in programming with CCS. Redesigning the intranet I made with CC2 is almost finished now so I'm going on to design several webapplications for my company. I could never have made my carreer change from social worker to working for the ICT department in my company without having had CC2 and CCS as development tools (and offcourse the Oracle SQL course I took). CC2 provided me with a fast way to learn PHP (and I learned a lot from the code CC2 generated) CCS is forcing me to go the extra mile and I'm loving it each step of the way.
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beshoo
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| Posted: 09/14/2002, 2:45 PM |
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Hi all
I like to say that the CCS is wonderful
But it has some bad thing
I said that a lot of time for CCS team
I DON’T LIKE THE "IDE" ,
Cos when you like to edit your work you will face a lot of difficulty
And I think CCS concentrate on HTML design
And that is my point
CC2 it is fast cos it concentrate on site hierarchy of site construction
When you build your site by CC2.5 you will see that it is simple
Cos you will edit the site by your favorite program e.g "Macromedia programs "
But in the CCS you will give up
Cos in CCS it is hard to use IDE especially that IDE is primitive
And if we went to CC2.5 you will see that it is very easy to edit any thig by one select
From the drop down menu.
It is not bad to make CC3 with all function that CCS have it with out IDE
I prefer CC2.5 interface than the IDE .
see :
update CC 2.0.5 (MY Wish list)...
Do you have any plan to update CC2.5 in (generated section) to be look like CCS
I think it is rely serious thing cos if you change the fundamental way of the generating in CCS and I think it is to GOOD side not a to bad side
so it is better to make CC2 look like CCS "fundamentally" in a manner of speaking
so it will be good step for CC cos i don't like the visual IDE section
CC2 is FASTER.
So please update cc2 to be like CCS in the code fundamentally section
And abut the Default Style
I rely love CCS new Style
And the small images it is rely nice
Please can CC2 have a same Styles
i rellly like CCS Styles & Templates
it is look WOOOOOOOW
i love it
but i like to use it in CC2.5
cose i dont like to work in CCS platform
it is relly slow and crach a lot
so what i have to do to conveart the CCS Styles to cc2.5 ?
will you please Codecharge team to make an abdate to the CC2.5 to be look like CCS...
just in the :
1- Styles making
2- sql builder
3- code generation in php section
we beg of you do that for us
Thanx a lot .
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Ken
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| Posted: 09/14/2002, 5:56 PM |
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First off I fail to see where my differing opinion from yours qualifies you to lash out at me? I did not personally attack you or belittle you. I also fail to see where I said anything about "real programmers"? I used the term non-programmer in the context to distinguish between application developers and those who buy CC2 or CCS and think that this product will enable them to become programmers over night. I have better things to do than to compare resumes. Sorry if you took what I said personally, it was not meant to be personal, just my opinion.
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