Steve
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| Posted: 09/17/2002, 8:58 AM |
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I will say this. The Code Charge team gets an F when it comes to Documentation for Code Charge Studio. In particular it lacks examples.
For Example. On the OnValidate - How do you get an Error to post. I suspect you need to use the AddError method. But what Object do you use for the AddErrof Method. I tried the Form Object - Form.AddError("This is the Error")
But I get the message that it doesn't apply to that class.
They have done a fine job on the product...
Now they need to do some work on the Documentation.
If the product on it's features could be graded stand alone... Then they did a good job.
The CodeCharge team (as developers and developers of a development tool) should know the value of good documentation.
Good Documentation can make a product better or can make a product worse.
In this case their lack of good documentation has dragged this product down.
I own CC 2.0 - I am reviewing CCS for a recommendation on whether to use this as a development environment.
Right now my recommendation would have to depend on project time. If you have experienced ASP programmers and their is not time for a learning curve ***DO NOT USE CODE CHARGE***.
If a Project needs no additional cusomization within the events - Code Charge could be used. Not many applications have no customization though.
If you have an 3-5 hours to figure out what should be a simple (and documented) item to use like the OnValidate event, then you might want to use code charge.
REPLY TO THIS IF YOU WANT CODECHARGE TO DO A BEETER JOB ON THEIR DOCUMENTATION.
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Steve Elsbury
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| Posted: 09/17/2002, 12:59 PM |
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I'd have to say I agree. I have been a programmer for 20 years, and am currently experienced in VB.NET, ASP.NET and ASP, and SQL Server. My company bought a copy of CCS to evaluate it's use and I am on the point of giving up. The only things I have been able to make work are those documented by example in the PDF tutorial.
Come on Code Charge - an on-line help file which merely mentions the existance of properties and methods is of no use to anyone!
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Headhunter
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| Posted: 09/17/2002, 2:05 PM |
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I agree.
At least, there have to be more practical examples.
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eDuck
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| Posted: 09/17/2002, 2:06 PM |
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I struggled through much the same and thought about writing a book, if only there was enough people to buy it.
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Zane
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| Posted: 09/17/2002, 5:39 PM |
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I agree, This product down the road will mature in the documentation. I so what are we to do, Wait for version 6.0 before we buy? In the mean time we waist our time wadding thur the lack of documentation, samples, even a Programers Reference that show the .NET/C# fuctions.
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Sanddy
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| Posted: 09/17/2002, 9:51 PM |
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You can find some ASP.NET and codecharge studio material at the url below !
[ www.mastercsharp.com/topic.aspx?topicID=16 ]
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John Sutton
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| Posted: 05/18/2003, 9:50 AM |
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Absolutely I aggree. I just purchased recently. I've been a programmer for 15 years and I've never had this much trouble learning an entire language. I'm trying to give it time because I realize there's a learning curve with everything, but mercy! It takes hours just to figure out how to do something simple. I've had to keep hard coding in some instances to make deadlines. I thought this product was supposed to alleviate that problem not compound it.
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rclayh
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| Posted: 05/18/2003, 11:38 AM |
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The example IN the documentation says
if ((Password.Value != null && Confirm.Value != null) && (Password.Value.ToString() != Confirm.Value.ToString() )) {
errors.Add("Password","The values of Password and Confirm fields do not match.");
}
For c#. I don't know that I agree with your comment about the documentation. I've found most of my problems to be that I was trying to make Code Charge Studio do what I expected it to do, not what it does. All my really annoying problems have turned out to be me getting the syntax wrong, even though it's in the documentation.
The OnValidate event IS in the help file. All the events are. For all languages.
I'll admit CodeCharge has a learning curve but after two weeks of using it, I can do more in hours than I could after 2 months of other tools. I don't agree that a great programmer in ASP.NET could go faster than CodeCharge Studio there are just too many things done for you.
I'm wrapping up an app in PHP this afternoon that I started yesterday, that would have taken two weeks in Dreamweaver with less features. The client is ecstatic and I can move on the next project.
Code Charge Studio kicks ass.
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rrodgers
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| Posted: 05/18/2003, 8:40 PM |
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>>If you have an 3-5 hours to figure out
>>what should be a simple (and documented)
>>item to use like the OnValidate event,
>>then you might want to use code charge.
Wow. I just did the same thing and it didn't take more than 10 minutes to figure out how to raise an error from the on validate event.
My recommendation is, since CCS is a tool and not a language in its own right, that a good understanding of the generated language is a nessessety. If you can't read and follow the code that is produced you will have a very difficult time using any code generator.
CCS has been very good for me and I am happy with it. I think the Docs are fine. Could it be better? Everything can and should be improved. Is it the worst doc, no. Does it cause me to loose money or jobs, no.
I hope Yes keeps working on the whole product. It is a fine product with a bright future.
Thanks Yes. Keep up the good work.
rob
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DaveRexel
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| Posted: 05/19/2003, 1:52 PM |
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Steve
I find the present documentation to be a vast improvement and is searchable using common windows help file UI. CCS requires an initial learning phase which is well laid out in the CCS tutorial files. This is only logical considering the scope and power of CCS and is true of most advanced applications.
Any document can always be improved and although I have been critical of the CCS version 1x documents I am very pleased with the the progress so far.
It only takes a couple minutes to find an item of interest if you invest some time reading through all the documentation first.
Most questions that contain enough information are answered by the community and I've yet to find a better support team for any product.
QUOTE
If a Project needs no additional cusomization within the events - Code Charge could be used. Not many applications have no customization though.
UNQUOTE
Seems to be an error there, CodeCharge generated applications can be customised very easily.
In an ideal world there would also be a detailed API for CCS so I could get busy writing plug-ins and extentions, but I do realise that the team is hard at work improving the product.
Dave
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CDS
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| Posted: 05/19/2003, 5:29 PM |
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I just love their Studio version...I've been programming for a couple of years and have had virtually no problems with CCS (even without looking at their documentation). When I need additional programming info, I look at examples or docs. And, of course, fellow programmers and their code help immensely.
Thank goodness for CCS, I say. I've created some killer apps.
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Char
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| Posted: 05/20/2003, 6:12 AM |
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I find CCS ver2 documentation (when compared to ver1) quite an improvement. Just the inclusion of the CCSExamplePack has made a huge difference.
Is the current documentation poor? No - it is quite a bit more than adequate.
Can it be improved? Sure. And I believe Yes Software has in place the necessary foundation for future documentation upgrades.
From some of the posts I see in the forums - new users of CCS lack a basic understanding of SQL/DataBases. I think Yes would do a service for the new CCS users by recommending some basic tutorials -- books and sites online, to get them a solid foundation for using CCS.
Keep up the good work Yes - I am looking forward to the next release of Ver2
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Sudhi
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| Posted: 05/20/2003, 7:29 AM |
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I agree - documentation is very poor. And this is an understatement!
They should either have better documentation out soon, or reword their advertisement / product information to state that "after you purchase the product you are pretty much on your own to figure out things that we should have documented."
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Ed
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| Posted: 05/21/2003, 4:48 PM |
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One likes documentation - Me, I hate it to go trough tons of docs, I prefer to learn from examples. So for me more examples would be very welcome, especially with different types of EVENTS.
Just a thought.
Ed,
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glerma
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| Posted: 05/22/2003, 11:47 AM |
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This is all old gripes. Yes Software has vastly improved their docs (but can always improve!)
Whoever posted this original post must have recieved a version that at the time, had some pretty sparce documentation ( I remember). However, it should always be known that CCS is not a tutorial on "how to program".
As others have said, it is merely a tool. It certainly cannot cover every base programmatically ( such as effective design, coding styles, etc.) outside of their custom classes, methods and functions.
I know they advertise alot about how little programming experience you need to user CCS, but that's just a marketing phrase. This IDE is for intermediate to advanced developers. Frankly the only documentation that should be neccesary is the Programming Reference for the objects, methods, etc. Yes has been kind enough to add much, much more, including many coding examples.
Just my thoughts...
g.
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JDR
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| Posted: 05/22/2003, 12:01 PM |
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I see that the original message was posted before CCS 2.0 was released and before any decent documentation was even available.
Why would someone even reply to an old message like this?
I personally don't use the documentation too much except for the examples, which are quite good.
But if you want to discuss something then start your own thread - don't reply to some old message from last year. This is confusing!
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John Sutton
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| Posted: 05/22/2003, 12:25 PM |
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All items expressed here are supposed to be the opinion of the person listing it. If you have an opinion, by all means express it. However, don't tell me or anyone else what opinion to have. If you don't like my opinion, to bad! Just express yours and get on with your life. The issue was, do you think the documentation is bad? Well, I do. I've been a programmer for 15 years. I'm not making snide remarks about your capabilities so do me the same courtesy. Besides, in example, what does using CC have to do with knowing PHP? You can be the best on the planet at PHP and still have everything to learn about CC and how to implement PHP in the midst of it.
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