RonB
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| Posted: 11/08/2002, 11:31 PM |
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I want to complain some to. You no what realy bugs me? the times I answered a question here or on the newsgroup and the person asking the original question doesn't post the succes(or lack thereoff) in the group. A lot of the time I'm just experimenting myself when answering. I see a question that looks interesting and I go and try to figure out how to it, post the answer and then am left hanging because the original poster doesn't post if it worked or not.
Man complaining is fun, even when it's not about Yes (one of my favourite bands, never dreamed they could write software to 
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Tony M
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| Posted: 11/09/2002, 2:39 AM |
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Tony M
Date Created 11/8/02 11:34:05 AM
Message To
RonB and imranz
We all know the CC/Studio products and the "Email Support System" is good etc...etc...etc
All myself and others are trying to do is get some response from YES SOFTWARE on this Forum.
If you think that YES SOFTWARE should NOT HONOUR THEIR PROMISE to..."Keep the Knowledge Base Updated"...a very simple task...Then please say so
It just seems that your are speaking up for the silent YES SOFTWARE...AND lIKE THEM YOU ARE NOT ANSWERING A VERY DIRECT QUESTION.
Regards
Tony M
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RonB
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| Posted: 11/09/2002, 2:46 AM |
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Look Tony, just lighten up will you. This post wasn't about Yes. So what the h**l does your answer have to do with my remarks. If you have a beef with yes and you want their answer here just use the support system and post their answer here. I can understand your problem with yes but you are pushing your mesage so hard it's getting lost in all the noise you make.
The only effect your action will have is that it will make other readers look away when they see your postings. Dividing this "communtiy" into pro and contra isn't very productive.
If you search this board you'll find postings I made complaining about several "features" of CCS. So don't paint me as a rabid Yes supporter. It doesn't do me justice and makes you look more like a childish namecaller then a serious user.
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Tony M
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| Posted: 11/09/2002, 4:00 AM |
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Once again you're avoiding a direct question RonB
I asked you and iramz...who supported you...to answer my question
If you think that YES SOFTWARE should NOT HONOUR THEIR PROMISE to..."Keep the Knowledge Base Updated"...a very simple task...Then please say so
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RonB
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| Posted: 11/09/2002, 4:50 AM |
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Oke, you did it.
You got me angry. Would you please post your poison somewhere else? If you have nothing more to say then the anoying cut and paste garbage you've been posting then I suggest, seriously suggest, you get a life. Because it realy looks like you are in desparate need for one.
Ron
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EMG
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| Posted: 11/09/2002, 7:41 AM |
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with all this useless chatter, no wonder Yes has abandoned the "community"
If only technical, CC specific (newbies-that means you) where posted here the problem would be eliminated.
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Steven
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| Posted: 11/09/2002, 10:32 AM |
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RonB ,
I agree with you, allthough i have posted my fair share of questions here, I have helped answer some others and it does annoy when the person disapears into the sunset, never letting you know if the answer helped or not.
Tony M,
so what if yes software never post on the forum?
In actual fact I think they do post, I have seen plenty of posts off Nicole, isnt she a yes software person?
as for them not posting concerning other stuf, well thats what the support system is for.
Have you never thought of just using that?
Personally, I think lots of people do not use the support system, because they are running unsupported versions. This isnt meant to say that you, tony are using an unsupported version, its just my oppinion as to why we seem in the last few months to have gained so many 'forum' only questions.
I see the forum being 'open house' and 'without registration' as open to this type of post..
I notice that their are many less posts on the newsgroups, maybe because their is more 'traceability' from a news group posting, than this forum.
Maybe what we need is a forum that enforces, registration, real emails for members, and maybe a 'confirmed' owner only section..
I wonder how many less posts we would see than here at the moment ...
Steven Dowd
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Tony M
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| Posted: 11/09/2002, 11:33 AM |
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Thank you Steven for extending this thread.
I have been using/writing/specifying database applications/systems etc since September 1978.
I'm a 62 year old man who is a fully paid up and registered CC/Studio user
...and I have used the YS Tech Support System and written personally to the owner of YS a number of times.
Good intuitive documentation/user groups and "newsgroups" etc has always helped me progress at my own speed since long before the Internet.
I was impressed with CC as soon as I saw it the July before last...I recommended it to various colleagues and friends. Committed to other projects I couldn't use it myself until the beginning of this year.
I'm just very frustrated by the lack of promised "help" from YES SOFTWARE
I hate to see bad management of information...and I need more detailed information to help me progress further with Studio.
I genuinely thought the "Knowledge Base" was the perfect short term answer to help me progress further and faster.
Sadly a unified voice could not be raised on this forum to get a response from our AUTHORS.
Perhaps I have had too many experiences of "broken promises" by software manufacturers.
Regards
Tony M
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yodabear
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| Posted: 11/09/2002, 1:53 PM |
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Hello RonB (or should that be RnB? joke)
I agree, it would be good if people would be so unselfish as to respond when the solutions offered really help.
That would help us help others better.
So posters - respond with comments, success or failure reports of the excellent efforts of many of the unse3lfish people here.
Another point - why do some of the apparently competent posters here repeatedly oppose all posts demanding more and better CCS documentation - afraid that some newbies will gain ground with this excellent app and steal your jobs? Stop being Yes-sayers and sycophants and admit that the CCS app while brilliant in its concept is extremely poor in documentation and has very serious flaws - the lack of tree structures in the CCS GUI forced me to hand-code my last project, and this very primitive forum-app sucks big-time. I coded a very good threaded and secure forum from scratch for an intranet this weekend in under 48 hours without CCS though I would prefer to use an app like CCS because it would simplify uppates and hand-over to the local techs.
TonyM does have a point, even if its repeated ad nauseum.
-yodabear
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RonB
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| Posted: 11/10/2002, 3:28 AM |
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I agree with you on all points. I just feel that tony is being counter
productive with his rantings. He then proceeds to insult those that in effect agree with him thus alienating them. I don't mind people having concerns about the service from yes. I just feel they have to focus on stuff that is realy needed ie decent documentation. Competition isn't a factor for me because there are thousands of developers that could do a better job then me. None of them work for my company and they cant afford a second developer
I havent done anything yet outside my company so I'm not in competition with other developers.
I personaly like the open source attitude a lot more the what I've encountered in several MS camps(asp, vb.net etc.) they are less inclined to share knowledge and generaly want to get payed for just saying hello. This forum is an exception to the rule in that regard (dont want to insult the good users here
I don't mean I want everything for free but knowledge sharing is a good idea in general I feel.
CCS will never become a tool that will allow people who cant design to design. That is something everybody should understand. I personaly have trouble with the graphic design bit in my projects because that is something I know little about. Dreamweaver is an excelent tool I use for that part but it will never make me a graphics designer. CC and CCS will allow you to produce quick standard looking apps. But if you don't know how to extend the capabilities of these tools it will never be anything more then standard looking stuff.
For my companies intranet I had to program a lot of events to be able to combine data from 3 different databases (mysql, oracle and solid) into 1 grid. That's what's making the intranet being apreciated by my employer. They want functionality above nice looks. (fortunately To make good use of cc and now CCS I learned PHP, Oracle SQL(and some plsql). I had to learn database administration stuff for oracle/mysql and had to delve into the database structure of oracle and solid databases to figure out what the hell the join should be between table CH1002 in solid and the_other_anoyingly_named_table in Oracle. You see most time went into other stuff then CC and CCS.
What I'm trying to say is it takes time to do fantastic stuff with fantastic tools. If people would be more willing to spend that time I feel a lot of the postings here would dissapear. To many people went from CC to CCS expecting the same experience. CCS is a totaly different tool with a totaly different consumer group as a target. Spend time to learn or stay put with CC.
Ron
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yodabear
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| Posted: 11/10/2002, 4:05 AM |
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RonB
I am in full agreement with you. I compare CC CCS usergroups to those using Macromedia products and find that people still ask elementary questions no matter how good the documentation. However using that good MM docs has helped me become very proficient in Dreamweaver and Flash, I wish this experience for CCS.
The second part of my post was not addressed to you, rather to users that always oppose posts demanding better docs for CCS.
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Tony M
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| Posted: 11/10/2002, 5:49 AM |
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To
RonB and yodabear
How can we encourage YS to help us more
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Char
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| Posted: 11/10/2002, 8:20 AM |
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With any application I use when I have a problem the first place I go is to the documentation, Knowledge Base, Forums, NGs etc.
If searching the above does not resolve my problem and I am not in a hurry I will post my problem in the Forum/NG. If I'm pushing a deadline I contact support directly.
When I have a problem with CCS - well I can forget the above. Yes has got to do a better job providing support tools. Contacting Yes support for me is the last resort...I prefer they spend their time on the NEXT RELEASE and hopefully DOCUMENTATION.
Just my 2 cents
Char
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Steven
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| Posted: 11/10/2002, 8:32 AM |
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>Tony M
>Date Created 11/10/02 5:49:41 AM
>Message To
>RonB and yodabear
>How can we encourage YS to help us more
Tony M
allthough i do not see keeping up a knowledgebase a user thing, maybe it would 'help' YS if a knowledge base was made up , or supplied to them, how long would it take for a group of people here to group off and cut n paste sections of related question/answers from the forums into a Knowledge Base system.
If indeed YS are a smaller sized outfit, keeping on top of actual Support maybe taxing, if you are looking to actually help, maybe this would help YS and ourselves?
I can imagine i will get an ear bashing off lots of users for suggesting this, but hey, you asked for a suggestion?
Steven Dowd
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DaveRexel
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| Posted: 11/10/2002, 1:09 PM |
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Hello CCS-ers
At last there is a constructive suggestion - Thanks Steven!
I have advocated a user-maintained Knowledge-Base back in May though I then envisioned the main branch of the app based on the CCS programmers reference with users contributng creative and hopefully innovative uses of the classes, functions references etc. Mundane connection how-tos and other base-level needs could be served in a separate branch of the same app as well as hopefully a branch for my pet project : writing plug-ins and new builders.
How could one such project be launched? I have come to the same conclusion as Steven D that YesSoftware is severly lacking in Human Resources (read: hands on the wheels : people : employees) and this would be an honourable project for dedicated and enthusiatic CCS users who like the program but would prefer the solutions available in one place for easy lookup. This would free upp the staff at YesSoftware to do what we really need - frequent updates and bug-fixes and a more rapid implementation of the feasable user suggestions.
Since my original suggestion fell on mostly deaf ears I do rely mostly on my memory since I read all these and all the CC/CCS NG posts as well, so such a reference work would mostly benefit newbies and intermediate CCS users at first.
However I feel there are two approaches to this thorny problem.
1- YS provide a web-app on their domain to contributors.
I'm not holding my breath because they do not seem to
frequent this forum at executive level (though I did once
elecit a reply from top YS brass on this forum in the summer.)
Because I do believe in the free exchange and availablity of information on the one hand and still charge high prices to any entity wanting to make a profit on my personal efforts on the other, I feel that we users should aid YesSoftware in building the framework for your suggested Knowledge-Base. So...
2- Subject to reasonable conditions and responsible users I will contribute web-space and user-accounts to editors for such a project.
When and if the project attains the dignity of YesSoftware wanting to host it themselves it is my primary condition that all contributors to my proposed project agree from day-one to hand it over to YesSoftware when asked for.
A stumbling block can be that this reference-work will facilitate those who have not bought the program, but I guess passing this initial work over to YesSoftware in the second stage will allow them to put the correct contraints in place to secure their own interests. I do feel that they should have the final word on all things CCS: a unique and innovative program that they have developed:
Now, is anybody willing to help out?
There's a lot of planning to do
- A new thread to plan the app.
- A few initial contributors with a minimal of intermediate level,
but lots of entusiasm for CCS,
don't underestimate yourselves here please.
Maybe I'm too far out on thin ice here but I do prefer to offer solutions rather than complaints.
Should I start a new topic with this suggestion?
Greetings
Dave
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RonB
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| Posted: 11/10/2002, 2:59 PM |
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You've got my vote Dave.
I agree that integration with this site or the ilusive CCS site would be the best thing if yes would be willing to support this. I'd be willing to spend some time supporting the app.
Ron
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Steven
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| Posted: 11/10/2002, 3:06 PM |
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Ok , well, maybe i can provide the nice domain name,
since I happen to have a few CC & CCS type names
www.codecharge-studio.com /co.uk and net
or a few others that would proove quit suitable?
Steven Dowd
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DaveRexel
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| Posted: 11/10/2002, 3:11 PM |
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Thanks RonB,
Hopefully other helpful CCS users will also climb on board so we can start.
Like most other developers my workload meter mostly reads "overload", but with a few inital contributors and others who join as the project develops the upkeep of the Knowledge-Base will not depend on just one or two people.
I will repeat my offer of hosting the initial application to get it off the ground.
Greetings
Dave
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DaveRexel
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| Posted: 11/10/2002, 3:22 PM |
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Hello Steven,
Because I hope that once the Knowledge-Base attains critical mass YesSoftware will take the content and integrate it I do not plan to register a new domain but rather host it on a site that I now use only for teaching and as a forum for my students.
Hope this will not be a problem.
I have a massive toothache and have to take sedation now to be able to work tomorrow, so I'll sign off for now.
Good night and take care.
Regards
Dave
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Eladesor
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| Posted: 11/10/2002, 3:35 PM |
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I have a more 'unified' name if anyone wishes to contact me regarding the use of it -
CodeChargers.com (also have CodeChargers.net and CodeChargers.co.uk etc..)
regards to all :)
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Jeremy
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| Posted: 11/10/2002, 10:31 PM |
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Aye, like most here I am busy as can be, but willing to lend a hand if needed. I'd say the first round of business would be installing a snitz forum or something similar for US...the people developing it. There is no way in hell we can communicate efficiently on this forum, the newer "free" forums have nice email support among other features like user profiles, which saves so much time. I don't want to have to check a web page or forum to see if someone replied, I just want an email when someone replies. That is my first suggestion.
I also could provide web space if needed, but it looks like that is already taken care of.
Lets try to keep this idea/thread going, and make it really go somewhere this time. I have seen threads of enthusiasm start up like this before, then taper to nothing. I suppose someone will emerge as ring leader.... :).
-Keep it going
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Steven
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| Posted: 11/11/2002, 1:47 AM |
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I think firstly, it should be decided what everyone wants to see in a knowledgebase system, is their a current gpl system somewhere that would actually fit the idea's or is this going to be a ground up CC / CCS system, and release the CCS file for it at the end
Steven Dowd
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Eladesor
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| Posted: 11/11/2002, 8:26 AM |
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Well I've bit the bullet (so to speak) - rather than post it all again please read - http://www.gotocode.com/disc_viewt.asp?mid=16709&
Eegards
Eladesor
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