Frustrated
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| Posted: 05/22/2003, 6:08 PM |
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OK, I love the fast and easy A/E/D db's you can do with codecharge, BUT the second you want to do anything of value you have to bang your head against the wall to make progress. Documentation SUCKS, examples tend to be OVER complicated instead of showing things in a clear consice and easy way to learn it. Support on this board is OK but MANY times things are posted with no response, or poor response. Codecharge support is screwy giving you ridiculous answers to problems which of course don't solve anything, and RARELY in my 8 or so support tickets did I get a straight correct answer on the first try.... always back and forth until somebody wakes up and gives me a real answer. I have spent soooooo much time trying to get something to work in code charge at times, that I wonder why I didn't just sit down and code it from scratch... IT WOULD HAVE SAVED ME TIME AND FRUSTRATION from the get go....
Code Charge needs to figure out how to improve MANY things DOCS, Support Board, and the perspective the community has of the product...
ANY BODY ELSE WANT TO THROW THIER CODECHARGE INTO BON FIRE?
rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
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glerma
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| Posted: 05/22/2003, 7:35 PM |
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If you can code from scratch, then what are you having so many problems with man? If you have developed OO style before, then this should not be to hard to figure out. T
Documentation (as of CCS 2.0.6) is great. What's wrong with the docs?
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MrAndrew
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| Posted: 05/22/2003, 7:47 PM |
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I love the product. I suppose some more comprehensive documentation would be helpful but I would rather more features. It is just not too tough to figure out. My support experiences have been very positive and the user community is pretty cool.
Where else do you get all this for a few hundred bills? Not for nothing "Frustrated", but you are a real whiner.
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mutsch
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| Posted: 05/23/2003, 3:50 AM |
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Perfect, when you do that I have a basket for you 
Serious, there is some truth behind all of these treads but things improved since the official release of 2.0 and I never had one of my requests to the
official support unanswered or unsufficently answered.
I guess by now Yes knows all these problems (they have been told many times) and they are going into the right direction.
I am satisfied whith what I got so far. There is of course always room for improvement.
mutsch
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rrodgers
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| Posted: 05/23/2003, 5:15 AM |
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>>and RARELY in my 8 or so support tickets did I
>>get a straight correct answer on the first try....
To me this is the telling sentence of this post. I see a lot of questions on this board (and others) that are asked poorly. The question does not provided enough information to get an Idea of what the user wants, needs or is trying to do. I am sure I am guilty of this also. But if you have asked for support 8ish times and have not recieved satisfactory responses on the first exchange (Would a complete answer on the first exchange be an industry norm?) then perhaps it is the way the questions are phrased, or the quantity, quality or relevence of the information you are providing in your first post?
Sometimes you have to ask yourself what can I do to make this process flow better, rather than point the finger elsewhere in frustration.
rob
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RonB
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| Posted: 05/23/2003, 6:14 AM |
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The only way you will get me to give up my CCS is when you show me a rad tool that does what ccs does(in php), wich is cheaper, easier to work with and just as fast. I've got a feeling I'll be holding on to my copy for a while yet while you search.
RonB
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glerma
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| Posted: 05/23/2003, 10:44 AM |
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Mr rrodgers (Mr. Rogers! A pun!)
I wholeheartetly agree with you on your comments. So many times, people get frustrated with a problem and dont even explain the problem. If Mr (or Mrs.) Frustrated would just explain the problem first, instead of complaining about the support, maybe someone in this community can help him/her!
To be fair and balanced though, I would say if such person is not using C.C.S, they probably do get frustrated more than not. The Old C.C is in my opinion, a bit under supported and outdated. They should just put it out to pasture and obsolete it. (I'm sure I'll get lots of groans for that)
Regards,
g.
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rrodges
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| Posted: 05/23/2003, 11:07 AM |
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glerma,
>>Mr rrodgers (Mr. Rogers! A pun!)
Welcome to my neighborhood!! (May Fred rest in peace)
I get the puns and jokes quite a bit. It is all good though. They are always good natured.
>>instead of complaining about the support,
>>maybe someone in this community can help him/her!
I think it is in everyones best interest (If you want to keep making money useing CCS) to help out and provide support where they can, at their own level. Don't mistake me for someone who is trying to make the world a better place. I am selfish:->. I want Yes to grow and prosper because their CCS tool is a godsend.
I myself had never expected a reply from Yes on these forums. When I have an issue I can't solve I use the support form on the code charge site.
http://support.codecharge.com/support_new.asp
There has been a lot of discussion in the last few days about the lack of documentation or support or ???? Looking at starting message from each thread I see names there (in most cases) but I don't see any recent questions by these folks. I encourage these folks to
Ask their question, or state their issue. In a message to this group that describes the problem clearly. Don't forget to mention the environment you are using.
CCS(or CC), ASP, PHP, Pearl, IIS, Apache .... what ever you use and program.
Maybe someone will see it this time and be able to help.
rob
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rclayh
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| Posted: 05/23/2003, 12:51 PM |
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When someone bashes Yes support, I have to wonder how they are contacting them? I posted a support message one night at 10PM and got two responses by 6AM the next morning (Thank you Helen, et. al.). And it was really helpful.
CodeCharge Studio has already paid for itself twice and yes I've had problems and there are bugs here and there. But that statement applies (here comes the caps lock) TO EVERY SINGLE THING I'VE EVER DONE ON THE COMPUTER. As support experiences go Yes is way above the curve in quality and responsiveness.
I find the documentation, while not overwhelming, sufficient and easily as good as many other programs I have.
Am I the only person that thinks it's amazing that Code Charge Studio does as great a job as it does in 5 languages? I have generated apps in VB.NET, PHP, and Java all with one tool. It's great.
If you have a specific problem POST IT. If your problem is you are generally unhappy take a pleasant walk, drink a cup of hot tea, and have a cookie. Then come back to the situation with a fresh attitude and try again.
Please.
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ziggetty
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| Posted: 05/23/2003, 1:39 PM |
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never had problems with support. As i am in Holland i sometimes wondered where alex was in the timezone , left or right from me. Even got replies on sunday!
it was not all rosy, but documentation has improved tremendous!
and this is just as codechargers.net just a user forum. Have seen support people on the newsgroups, but not here. but that is not what i expect.
solved a lot myself, and further got help from friendly collegue developers or from the support i asked at yes-site.
programming is still sometimes difficult, if you want it a little different then a builder supplies to you.
hopefully we will get an api, and more builders will arise above the horizon.
and yes, sometimes i am frustrated, because my php code doesn't work. but that has nothing to do with codecharge.
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Tony M
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| Posted: 05/23/2003, 2:03 PM |
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YES SOFTWARE...CAN STOP THE FRUSTRATION...THAT MANY OF THEIR CUSTOMERS FEEL
I would like to repeat what I have said MANY TIMES before...
YES SOFTWARE...Have not kept their promises to update the "Knowledge Base" at...http://support.codecharge.com/kb_search.asp
YES SOFTWARE have in place a "Knowledge Base" that would only take a few minutes a week to keep updated...by copying and pasting from their support system database etc...They have been very lax in their duty to us and they have broken their promises to us.
Even now it wouldn't take very much time to cut and paste LOGGED SUPPORT ANSWERS ETC into the "Knowledge Base
They cannot have any excuses...because they must answer at least FIVE NEW CC and TEN NEW Studio questions each week.
Imagine how much frustration, duplication of effort and time...they could have saved users...AND THEMSELVES...if those answers were in the "Knowledge Base"
Everyone can see YES SOFTWARE's lack of attention to their customers...from the individual posting dates for...
1 - FAQs
2 - How To
3 - Trouble Shooting
They MUST KEEP THE "Knowledge Base" updated
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BB
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| Posted: 05/23/2003, 2:08 PM |
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If you do not pursue using Codecharge Studio it will be your own loss - not Yes'. It does have a steeper learning curve than many of us would like, but even with that drawback, it has allowed me to produce results that would have been absolutely impossible without it in the same time frame. Submit your question to Yes' regular support system and you will likely get the results you need.
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DaveRexel
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| Posted: 05/23/2003, 2:15 PM |
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::
let me start by saying that to get me to quit using CC & CCS you would need to saw it off my dead body  )
then I must agree with TonyM's very detailed analysis, surely there must be a continual flow of issues/solutions at support which could be published to the support sites knowledge base otherwise it's not worthy of its name.
this forum is not representative of the current version of CCS and should be remade using the presesent version using the same DB records (please dev team)
the main flaw is the ability to post in any name while not logged in.
the frustration experienced by users at the nadir of learning curve for CCS is something we all have felt at one time or the other but please persevere as the rewards far outweigh the pain.
Dave
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Asher
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| Posted: 05/23/2003, 6:07 PM |
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Right on Brother... I struggle at times, but the reality is that CCS has got me so much further down the track than I would have been without it. Like wise all of my support queries have always been answered promptly and normally get me on to the right track.
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Frustrated
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| Posted: 05/23/2003, 10:30 PM |
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OK I've been flamed!
Let me post some questions here, and answer some of the issues.
1. I can assure you the questions I asked were reasonably well written.
2. Remember I said I LOVE how fast and simple an Add/Edit/Delete DB func
can be written.
3. You can say I am crazy ( thats a different issue) but if you read the
boards, there are just many issues and questions left unanswered.
4. By the way I am using CC not CCS.
SO, to that I say this, you have to agree that the support board needs
improvement to make finding, helping, and solving problems faster for
everyone dumb people or otherwise.
The community IS USUALLY HELPFULL, but many questions don't REALLY get
answered, and because of the board once you see a number greater then 1
or 2 you might not be willing to go in there, sift through everything
in order to help the person out.
Answers that are in the community aren't easy to get to because of the board.
A GREAT example is the other day after not using code charge I ran into the problem where page properties boxes wouldn't open. I searched the board ( no luck ) I searched the FAQ ( no luck ) and finally submitted help to Yes.
I got a PERFECT response and within a VERY good time, so that was great.
I'll give you my recent head banger and tell me what you think I could have done wrong.
Preface:
When I first got CC, I setup a 1 page site with authentication, to see, learn and understand HOW to use CC's built in auth system. It worked, and everything seemed great.
Now:
I created a small program with several A/E/D DB's and a couple of reports,
I then decided that the code looked pretty good, and I was going to add authentication. I configured it EXACTLY the same way as my first test, I got it all done, and when I post it I get a BLANK login page.
What Did I do to try to fix it:
I erased all the files from the server and republished the files...NO LUCK
I checked all the features, options, form type, etc, etc, looked good so I opened TaskMan to compare... everything is the same.
I erased the login page, recreated it from scratch and published... NO LUCK
OK frustration sets in a bit, but I go and put together another ugly quick 1 page test site, which has a login page, and a default page... WORKS PERFECT..
At that point I checked EVERYTHING detail by detail, including making sure every field was the same in the properties security tag, every table, user id, path password and so on... and as it stands I can either TRASH the whole thing and start from scratch doing the security first to insure that works, or BANG MY HEAD AGAINST THE WALL until I forget what I was doing so I won't be frustrated any more.
Now you tell me if that isn't frustrating and make you wonder why your using a tool that is to make things easier, yet in many cases ends up not working I don't know what to say...
By the way if you can help me with instructions on what to do to get around this login problem, that would be GREATLY appreciated.
Thanks for hearing my rant....
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Ed
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| Posted: 05/24/2003, 2:04 AM |
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I totally agree with Tony & Dave’s opinion.
If you try the Knowledge base, look for ALL the PHP articles (the most used language) , gives you ONLY -23- results. 3 items added over the last 6 months.
I think this could be a lot better after more than a year CCS.
Updating this daily would make everybody’s live easier, the users AND the support team.
Ed,
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rclayh
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| Posted: 05/24/2003, 4:15 AM |
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First you have to set the return page property for the login form. It's in the properties window. Make sure you select the form (best way to do it is in the tree view). I usually create an "home" page that has menus and have the login return to that if the login form isn't being called by a page with restricted access. If the login is being called by a page then it will return to that page on validation.
Hope this helps.
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RonB
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| Posted: 05/24/2003, 4:21 AM |
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I must say I'm surprised to see the number of people that are having trouble with Yes support. As I've said before, my experience with them has been excelent.
I've been thinking about this since I read the original message in this posting and I must say this:
Even though my experience has been nothing but excelent it should be troublesome to Yes to see so many custumors that are having trouble reaching support or getting answers they can work with. I feel a lot of this has to do with the impression Yes is putting out that CCS is easy and does not require more then a beginners level of programming experience.
This is simply not true. To use CCS and all it's features, a relatively good understanding of the language you program in is required if you need to do more then just the standard stuff.
For PHP users a working knowledge of OOP oriented PHP is a must if you need to do things like passing array's to pages for use in javascript etc. Not because doing it is so difficult but because you 'll be examining the classes CCS uses to figure out how to use the methodes and functions to get what you want.
That's because they are poorly documented(mostly a lack of examples).
It's true CCS uses it's own classes. Saying it uses it's own syntax is simply not true for php. Everything done in CCS(PHP) is standard php all be it OOP. Since php is not an OO language by nature this can take some getting used to if you are not familiar with this way of php programming. I wasn't (learned php with CC and OOP php with CCS)so I had to invest a lot of time in getting a grip on OO PHP.
So to make a long story short:
-Yes needs to put out the right image for CCS. it's a professional tool that will require you te get a good working knowledge of the language you are programming in if you need to do more then just the standard stuff.
- People using CCS will have to accept the fact that CCS will take you some time to master.
- If so many people are having trouble with support Yes should take a good look at their system.
- Users of this forum that do not get he answers they are looking for should stop blaming Yes and start discussing this with the other users of this forum. Appearently we as a community fall short where it comes to answering questions of fellow users. This is a user forum and NOT a Yes support forum.
Ron
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Tony M
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| Posted: 05/24/2003, 1:37 PM |
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Because YesSoftware answer at least...
FIVE NEW CC and TEN NEW Studio questions each week.
How can we...as a community
...pursuade YesSoftware...to update the "Knowledge Base" daily/weekly
BUT certainly more frequently...than they are...at the moment ???
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This will save much frustration, duplication of effort and time...
for users...AND THEMSELVES...
...if all YesSoftware Support answers...are pasted into the "Knowledge Base"
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Frustrated 2
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| Posted: 05/27/2003, 6:56 AM |
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Or buiuld a system with the damn thing that will do automatic updating and give us the ccs.....code can shine
saxeine
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