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YesSoftware Forums -> CodeCharge Studio -> Wishes

 In Design mode offer style sheet layout options rather than tables

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RoskO

Posts: 19
Posted: 01/20/2004, 8:57 AM

I think it would be a really cool addition to CCS to be able to develop sites 100% in CSS rather than tables. This would require some additional controls in the CCS IDE, but would be really useful. Tables are ok, but CSS offer so much more flexibility and power.

Just a thought.


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BlinkyBill

Posts: 86
Posted: 01/21/2004, 8:26 PM

Quote RoskO:
I think it would be a really cool addition to CCS to be able to develop sites 100% in CSS rather than tables. This would require some additional controls in the CCS IDE, but would be really useful. Tables are ok, but CSS offer so much more flexibility and power.

Just a thought.



I second this this request, while your at rewrite ALL the html templates so they generate XHTML + CSS, that will pass validators w/o tinkering !
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peterr


Posts: 5971
Posted: 01/22/2004, 5:21 PM

Hi,

I eblieve that improving CSS can be treated separately from implementing XHTML.
Have a question for Rosk0: do I understand correctly that you want to replace tables with CSS (for example)? Could you point me to any Website or Webpage that is structured in such a way, to see more specifically what you mean.

Thanks
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RoskO

Posts: 19
Posted: 01/22/2004, 5:51 PM

An excellent site that doesn't use tables

http://www.sitepoint.com

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peterr


Posts: 5971
Posted: 01/23/2004, 12:55 PM

Hmm, as soon as I opened this site, the first thing I see are... tables.

Here is just a small snippet of their HTML:
<table summary="The Latest Discussions at SitePoint Forums"><tbody>  
	  <tr>  
		<th class="row1">Topic</th>  
		<th class="row1">Posts</th>  
		<th class="row1">Views</th>  
		<th class="row1">Started by</th>  
	  </tr>

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RoskO

Posts: 19
Posted: 01/23/2004, 1:29 PM

You would still use tables for some things, but the entire layout is CSS. Here's an article, please read it thoroughly so you can understand what I'm talking about. CCS uses style sheets for some editing which is great, I guess it would be advised for YES to look forward to CCS3 and the fact that tables are going away. In the near future many sites are going to rely entirely on CSS layouts, not table layouts. Currently, codecharge and other apps promote table layout which is goin out the window in a hurry for really experienced designers. If CCS brought that in as another advantage over other RADS, just another marketing + for Yes Software

Here's the article.

http://www.sitepoint.com/article/1213
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peterr


Posts: 5971
Posted: 01/23/2004, 2:15 PM

Jeremy,

Well, wait, how do we decide where we "would still use tables for some things"? We can either do things cleanly, or we can create a mix that no one may like...

We also just read an online posting by someone who finds tableless CSS-based tables worthless (as someone who just tried to use it in practice, not a writer):
http://groups.google.com/groups?scoring=d&selm=1egxhdie...prop.net&rnum=1

Marketing is one thing, but we should also be concerned about creating something that users are not familiar with and cannot easily modify, plus may have more problems with than usefulness. The tableless CSS looks pretty fragile at this time.

Maybe then let's wait for:
1. The final CSS3 specs release and some visible acceptance by users.
2. http://www.sitepoint.com/ will be implemented without tables
3. DreamWeaver, the most popular tool for Web design, will support CSS-based tables by default.

Also keep in mind that CodeCharge Studio is not a Web design tool and users must be able to edit their HTML or CSS after we create it.
Your idea is appreciated though, it is on our list, and we should come back to it when CSS3 itself is ready, accepted and supported.

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RoskO

Posts: 19
Posted: 01/23/2004, 7:43 PM

Peterr, thanks for noting it as a wish. It really wasn't intended as a "wish it was in CCS right now" type of thing. I agree that for now tables are probably more intuitive for most. Happy to see you are looking at it for the future though, as it's sure to be mainstream in a few years.


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Benoit
Posted: 02/04/2004, 2:08 PM

You can do your main layout without tables (for header, leftcol, center and rightcol) , and let codecharge generate its tables inside these main areas.
Tables shoud not be banned. They should just be left for what they where made for : tabular data
The only problem I had was with the integrated style sheet editor. It seems that Codecharge generates CSS tags such as header#header leftcol#leftcol etc, instead of just header leftcol, etc
But with manual editing of the theme style sheet, I have a nice table less layout ...
( another link to tableless style sheet is http://www.glish.com/css/

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