Dave Rexel
|
| Posted: 07/04/2003, 3:30 PM |
|
Hello fellow CCS users
This has been previously posted and I suggest that it
has high relevance in this thread as well. I'm talking about the path to
providing user-built plugins ::
I have coded several iterations of the LOGIC behind the gotocode original
which I have redone
in CCS. The Rexdesign site (http://www.rexdesign.com/) is but one simple
example, I have focused on implementing the logic rather than slavishly
re-coding the original, the YS support site code example is trivial if you
*know* CCS & CC
=== just re-design it using the business/user logic with a typical users
work-flow as a starting point. [I will publish a tutorial on this if there
is any serious demand]
"We implement your business logic" is how my present dev-team does it ===
(hand-coded & fully supported in whatever environment you need) and we have
a large established customer base that likes this approach === we make your
business logic possible utilising your present environment if possible. We
have : for example : very specialised (cascading & data-aware) hand-coded DB
converters in various scripting languages for all common DB vendors, thus
reducing our potential *donkey-work*.
note : Please don't contact us as we're far too busy to take any enquiries
that are not sponsored/recommended by existing customers. Let me give you a
clue === we don't even have a catchy name and I'm the only member regularly
using any code-generator albeit on my own side-line projects!
The most common and revenue-generating trigger for us is re-designing and
refining previous efforts from other [often in-house] developers common
usage of various *newbie/non-coder* apps viz FP, NOF, VS and various other
wizard based RAD IDEs to which I now add CCS/CC. Note the accent on refining
=== this is the key to our successful improvement of previously primitive
business sites === We respect and refine the original developers GUI while
extending it to achieve the purchasers business-logic needs and simplifying
the customers often dreary journey through the mandatory site-interactions.
We realise that designing a functional customer site requires the
interaction of many disparate disicplines.
CCS/CC = while these programs appeal to many code-challenged developers who
are just starting out in web-application development they will eventually
cripple these very users with the inevitable need & very often
insurmountable learning-curve for more coding knowledge required of said
user to be able to leverage the full power of the CCS program.
In spite of my advocacy of CCS my dev-teams code mentats do not like CCS
even if it is polyglot (script-language agnostic) === we like its initial
premises immensely but not the present implementation --- and I am but a
humble graphics artist with coding apirations who is often used for feedback
as a cranky test-customer-object who possesses web-design skills and
business-management capabililties
My forte is GUI, useabilty, 3d, Flash, Director and video-streaming === ie,
I influence/design pre-dev & second stage implementation of a customers site
in our current design processes.
Why the present CC/CCS user model does not work :
I've used CC/CCS longer than most and still say that the present model has
severe limitations
you hit a brick wall after generating the site (since now you, the User have
to learn the additional CCS/CC published syntax & unpublished API)
the CCS API is not yet [2003-07-04] published so plug-ins etc are hard to
publish/resolve so no 3rd party solutions are available for people with
deadlines to meet.
The programs CCS/CC are very innovative as unique polyglot (READ scripting
multilanguage implemented) web application code generators but the
current user base seems largely addicted to wizard based software and very
capable of generating extremely unsafe sites due to sheer ignorance of the
serious issues involved!!! Again an argument for secure plug-ins from
3rd-parties.
This conclusion is drawn from perusing many of the posts on the various
forums. Most show that wizards implementation and possibly pre-empting for
secure site models potentially built by code-challenged developers are
neccessary in CCS/CC examples.
Just look at the basic Forum site provided in CC/CCS to see the massive
security flaws generated by the present wizards (see below) :
I don't think YesSoftware have regenerated its own sites for forum or
support since CC 2.0.5 as they have definitely not improved the abominable
www.gotocode.com community forum in spite of old security issues === all
users are able to post in whatever name they see fit to use at posting time
at gotocode. All done apparently in CC === a very inferior
product compared to CCS IMHO [please don't flame me, I DO use and like both
programs]
CCS can do much more than this but YesSoftware have yet to publish a useable
API for it. This is neccessary before any development can be started by
serious developers (such as our team).
Wizards/plug-ins for addressing more common tasks such as aggregation of
data which are a pre-requisite for building business-oriented sites are
conspicuously absent in CCS.
IF an useable API becomes available for this unique and very innovative
program I could personally assign programmers to develop custom PLUG-INS for
CCS (while being a humble artist I often have the team leadership as an
additional chore), I've personally completed two very useful plug-ins
[un-published but
fully functional] but will on principle refuse to go forward before
YesSoftware release official documentation on developing plug-ins so I know
what areas of the CCS codebase are frozen and what can be safely tweaked. (I
hate re-coding stuff as the vendor shifts the playing field)
This is my bone to pick with the CCS dev team as this software in it's
present iteration is potentially Enterprise Class IF the CCS programmers
would just release the full API and enough example
PLUG-Ins and initial documentation as well as
extended examples of business logic using the CCS API. The present sample
applications do not cut it, being too primitive and requiring too much
additional work to be useable on live sites maintained by relatively
code-challenged developers whom I surmise are the primary sales target for
CC/CCS.
The key idea to keep in mind is what I immundate of the original idea ===
CC == you coded views and forms of your database
NON OBECT ORIENTED CODE needed == newbie friendly
CCS == you still code views and forms of your database
OBECT ORIENTED CODE === code-mentat friendly
Nice, but really you need the facility to simply bend and twist the
generated site to meet your business needs === But now you need to learn the
CC/CCS special syntax in your chosen script-language and deal with the
largely un-documented API.
Unfortunately this mandatory API is not yet published because the code
generating objects are currently being developed hence the developers
inablity to currently provide an authorative API for the more arcane but
very useful subjects === this is not how we would want to proceed in the
real world using CCS as a serious web-application RAD IDE.
I am optimistic about the ability of CCS to make the metamorphis to what
it's initial design promised but this will require input from the more
experienced users [and not just a few yesmen] to aid and guide the programs
developers in the process of learning what the companys customers require.
Let's sidestep here : ---------
I guarantee that we === my dev-team can outdo CC/CCS
or whatever RAD/IDE is available at present because :
We have an extensive codebase of includeable functions (predating CC/CCS by
a few years) that provide business logic.
We have members who have artistic capabilities and non computer paradigms
that can humanly relate to business-logic and make it relatively enjoyable
(just how much fun is it to register all the new users every autumn for the
average pay-clerk??) We can't make it fun but more streamlined and easy to
do.
end the sidestep----
With CCS/CC in its present incarnation you very often never get to this
second phase as the boards show even the most advanced users getting bogged
down at primary level in the present opacity of the API.
We as an established dev-team do not need CCS/CC to do our work even though
I hope to change this in the long run and put my own site 100% built in CCS
site up as an example.
IMHO The present iteration of CCS program sometimes ends up confusing
the very user-base it needs to attract to make a long-term impact...
though the new documentation goes a long way,
the real way forward is to empower interested developers
to be able to release extentions and plugins to enable users to reach their
goals.
Greetings
Dave
"Alexey Alexapolsky" <alexa@codecharge.com> wrote in message
news:agu6q1$678$2@news.codecharge.com...
> Your custom actions should work ok with the next release.
>
> --
>
> Alex,
> Support Engineer
> CodeCharge Team
>
>
> "Dave Rexel" <therex_spamenot@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>news:agp942$14f$1@news.codecharge.com...
> > Hello Robert
> > Extremely sorry for this late reply.
> >
> > I've suspended work with CCS while my team focus on the process of
> adapting
> > and customizing MM MX Studio for our needs.
> >
> > Just popped into this NG to see if CCS update is released.
> >
> > When I ran into a few plugin dead ends I got an answer from CCS support
> that
> > a lot of improvements etc were on the way so I'm waiting eagerly for an
> > upgrade to CCS 1.0.6. where some documents on Actions development are
> > promised. My goal is to build my own CCS Builders/Wizards but I'll have
to
> > wait until my workload meter reads just "Busy" instead of "Insane".
> >
> > I also wonder if the code structures and models for Actions and Builders
> etc
> > is frozen by the developers so code written now will not break in the
next
> > release.
> >
> > I'll be back!
> > Dave
> >
> > "Robert Viehouser" <Robert_Viehouser@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> >news:agk97e$gut$1@news.codecharge.com...
> > > Hey Dave
> > >
> > > Thanks for example on plugin for ccs.
> > > Do you have any more plugin for ccs?
> > >
> > > Thanks
> > > Robert Viehouser
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > "Dave Rexel" <therex_spamenot@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > >news:acmbgq$goh$1@news.codecharge.com...
> > > > Plugin architecture SUCCESS
> > > >
> > > > Logic brings joy and harmony, making simple Plugin actions is no
> problem
> > > in
> > > > CCS
> > > >
> > > > STEPS TO A SIMPLE PLUGIN
> > > > Category : General
> > > > Description : Exposes a way to set the value of a Control in the
page
> > > > Adapted from the Save Control Value.xml
> > > > Just a test, easy to expand.
> > > >
> > > > - Save the file attached here to
> > > > CodeChargeStudio\Components\Actions\Server\General\
> > > > - Restart CCS
> > > > - Open any grid in Design mode
> > > > insert a label Control
> > > > by clicking in the Grid and then
> > > > clicking the Label Control button
> > > > click on this newly inserted Label
> > > > its Properties should be visible
> > > > - In Properties Events
> > > > Press + buttion
> > > > - Choose this new General Server Action
> > > > "00Set Control Value"
> > > > - Choose your Label
> > > > from Control Name dropdown
> > > > - Choose variable in Source Type dropdown
> > > > - Write any text in the Set Value textbox
> > > > - Go to Live Page mode
> > > > - Your text is shown!
> > > >
> > > > The Plugin architecture is really nice to work with so far.
> > > > Cool feature
> > > > - Double-click on Action and page regenerates,
> > > > Good for testing different values!
> > > >
> > > > Now for more exploration.
> > > > Greetings,
> > > > Dave
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > "Alexey Alexapolsky" <alexa@codecharge.com> wrote in message
> > > >news:acl2d1$159$2@news.codecharge.com...
> > > > > This breed of custom code action (file is attached) should work in
> > your
> > > > > project.
> > > > > Note that I modified only vb part.
> > > > > Modification made :
> > > > > ='Custom CodeYYY']">
> > > > > to
> > > > > ='CustomCodeYYY']">
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > Alex
> > > > > CodeCharge Developer
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > "Dave Rexel" <therex_spamenot@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > > > >news:acjo32$np3$1@news.codecharge.com...
> > > > > > Well here's some more Plugin Architecture News
> > > > > >
> > > > > > - Made a few cute Custom Code snippets but only the file Custom
> > > Code.xml
> > > > > > throws up code.
> > > > > > parked the rest for when YS get the time to answer me.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I am stuck on the problem of how to get CCS to recognise my
Custom
> > > > > > CodeXX.xml
> > > > > > All those files work perfectly when renamed to Custom Code.xml
> > > > > > (with the required CCS restart)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > A response from YS would be helpful.
> > > > > > Dave
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > "Dave Rexel" <therex_spamenot@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > > > > >news:aceg6j$ijc$1@news.codecharge.com...
> > > > > > > Konrad,
> > > > > > > My congratulations to the developers for building
> > > > > > > this extensibility into the program.
> > > > > > > I'm back with news.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Q1- I started carefuly with the custom code example
> > > > > > > Renaming the XML file to Custom Code2.xml
> > > > > > > was no no show, ie no code was generated
> > > > > > > amending the original Custom Code.xml
> > > > > > > by inserting an extra line like this
> > > > > > > <l>// DX changed.</l>
> > > > > > > worked only after
> > > > > > > figuring out the gotcha above
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > CCS OUTPUT:
> > > > > > > file://Custom Code @12-DE361603
> > > > > > > // -------------------------
> > > > > > > // DX changed.
> > > > > > > // Write your own code here.
> > > > > > > // -------------------------
> > > > > > > file://End Custom Code
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Looks promising.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Q2- addressed above
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > NOTES
> > > > > > > It works so far
> > > > > > > but only on exiting and restarting CCS
> > > > > > > at present this must be done for
> > > > > > > each and every change to XML file
> > > > > > > it makes testing changes very slow
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > ISSUE
> > > > > > > The program does not generate content in renamed XML file
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Q 3 - How can I get CCS to recognise my named xml event action
> > file
> > > > and
> > > > > > > generate my code?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > DIALOGS/WIZARDS
> > > > > > > I'm looking at
> > > > > > > ChangeTheme.html
> > > > > > > in
> > > > > > > ---\CodeChargeStudio\Components\Dialogs\Wizards\Examples
> > > > > > > - I see some hooks between form elements and js functions
> > > > > > > - but still in the dark
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Q4 - howto use this model to insert a custom control onto
page?
> > > > > > > Q5- Is there a simpler dialog example?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Thanks again.
> > > > > > > Dave
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > "CodeCharge Support" <support@codecharge.com> wrote in message
> > > > > > >news:aceaj3$80l$1@news.codecharge.com...
> > > > > > > > Hi Dave,
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Your action should be loaded automatically during program's
> > start,
> > > > as
> > > > > > long
> > > > > > > > as it is placed in the appropriate folder (with other
> actions).
> > > > > > > > I don't think that an Action can have a Dialog Box at this
> time,
> > > but
> > > > > we
> > > > > > > will
> > > > > > > > look into this for the next release.
> > > > > > > > Generally the Wizards are meant to have a Dialog Box, but
such
> > > > Dialog
> > > > > > Box
> > > > > > > > would have to be designed in HTML.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Konrad
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > "Dave Rexel" <therex_spamenot@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > > > > > > >news:ace74n$1kv$1@news.codecharge.com...
> > > > > > > > > Thanks Konrad,
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > The hooks in the Declare Variable.XML file are showing
quite
> > > > nicely.
> > > > > > > > > - comparing the ASP and PHP shows how to influence the
> > generated
> > > > > code:
> > > > > > > > > (lucky I decided a long time ago to be programming
> language
> > > > > > > agnostic).
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Q1- Should I save the file in same folder under another
name
> > > > > > > > > after I change drawing code in above example,
> > > > > > > > > Or is there another process for registering
> re-written
> > > > > > > > > action with the CCS?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Q2- When does CCS look for/ recognise its actions:
> > > > > > > > > - at program start?
> > > > > > > > > (OK but not ideal)
> > > > > > > > > - at project load ?
> > > > > > > > > (best middle ground, probably effective in next
> > > > scenario)
> > > > > > > > > - at each page generation?
> > > > > > > > > (superb, re-written plugins can update page
> content
> > > > > > > > > without re-insertion, let's say the plugins
> > changed,
> > > > > > > > > you would then just need to load the project
> > > > > > > > > and without further changes regenerate and
> publish
> > > > > > > > > to get the updates contained in the re-written
> > > plugin)
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > One prerequisite of proper plugins should of course be
> > > > compatibility
> > > > > > > with
> > > > > > > > > all supported languages, but if you don't mind I will
> > > concentrate
> > > > on
> > > > > > ASP
> > > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > PHP under this exploratory test.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I do need to begin with an example that triggers a dialog
> box
> > to
> > > > the
> > > > > > GUI
> > > > > > > > > user, setting sensible variables
> > > > > > > > > as defaults.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Any component will do, the simpler the better, just need
to
> > get
> > > my
> > > > > > head
> > > > > > > > > around the dialog drawing part as a first look at CCS
plugin
> > > > design.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Can you suggest a simple dialog driven component for above
> > > > purpose?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Thanks very much for your kind attention.
> > > > > > > > > Dave
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > "CodeCharge Support" <support@codecharge.com> wrote in
> message
> > > > > > > > >news:accnsa$6j6$1@news.codecharge.com...
> > > > > > > > > > Dave,
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > There is no dialog box, but there are properties for the
> > > Action,
> > > > > > below
> > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > Action itself.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Konrad
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > "Dave Rexel" <therex_spamenot@hotmail.com> wrote in
> message
> > > > > > > > > >news:acbqdf$j94$1@news.codecharge.com...
> > > > > > > > > > > Hello Alex
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > I've reinstalled CCS b4 completely (deleted old
folder)
> in
> > > > > > response
> > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > one
> > > > > > > > > > > of your other posts.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Now with a fresh install and a fresh example of Portal
> > > loaded
> > > > I
> > > > > go
> > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > > > Officers page and choose officers form.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Now I add Server Action to Before Show
> > > > > > > > > > > I choose Show variable, I want to see what the
> dialog-box
> > > > looks
> > > > > > > > like....
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > I don't get a dialog-box and the following code is
> > generated
> > > > > > > > > > > in Officers_events.php
> > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------
> > > > > > > > > > > global $;
> > > > > > > > > > > $ = "";
> > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------
> > > > > > > > > > > I'm surely doing something wrong here.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > This is before I look at the XML file, (I use Crimson
> > > Editor).
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Looking at XML file I see how to influence the code
> > > generation
> > > > > but
> > > > > > > > still
> > > > > > > > > > no
> > > > > > > > > > > clue on what triggers/draws the dialog box.
> > > > > > > > > > > If I create an XML file with the correct syntax, how
> does
> > > CCS
> > > > > know
> > > > > > > it
> > > > > > > > > > > exists?
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Hope you can help me.
> > > > > > > > > > > Dave
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > "Alexey Alexapolsky" <alexa@codecharge.com> wrote in
> > message
> > > > > > > > > > >news:acap0q$i55$2@news.codecharge.com...
> > > > > > > > > > > > Dave, concerning plugin writing hooks,
> > > > > > > > > > > > one of the main hooks is CCS Action ,that
> > > > > > > > > > > > can be found in Components/Actions folder.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Action is a customizable piece of script code used
for
> a
> > > > > > specific
> > > > > > > > > > purpose,
> > > > > > > > > > > > e.g. sending email, that can be inserted into
> generated
> > > > script
> > > > > .
> > > > > > > > > > > > It has own attributes that have GUI representation ,
> > > > > > > > > > > > action code depends on these attributes.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Actions are xml stylesheets , and you can start by
> > > learning
> > > > > > > > > > > > the simplest ones like Declare Variable.xml
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > > > > > Alex
> > > > > > > > > > > > CodeCharge Developer
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > "Dave Rexel" <therex_spamenot@hotmail.com> wrote in
> > > message
> > > > > > > > > > > >news:ac6k7s$crh$1@news.codecharge.com...
> > > > > > > > > > > > > There is risk for my sanity
> > > > > > > > > > > > > I have 4 PCs in front of me:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > As an exercise I have built a GUI translation tool
> for
> > > the
> > > > > CCS
> > > > > > > > site
> > > > > > > > > > > > language
> > > > > > > > > > > > > file with Delphi then C++ and I'm laughing as I
> fiddle
> > > > with
> > > > > a
> > > > > > > > Flash
> > > > > > > > > MX
> > > > > > > > > > > > > version (paradox: this is the hardest version to
> > build,
> > > > but
> > > > > > fun
> > > > > > > > > > anyway).
> > > > > > > > > > > > > If I could be sure that the contents of the
English
> > > > language
> > > > > > > > > XML-file
> > > > > > > > > > is
> > > > > > > > > > > > > frozen by the developers I could go further than
> just
> > > > > > > experiments.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Now over to....
> > > > > > > > > > > > > The search for the Holy Home-grown Plugin:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > I am comparing all the component XML files to find
> CCS
> > > > > > keywords,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > recognisable code-patterns and possible
> plugin-writing
> > > > > hooks.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > In the absence of any documentation...
> > > > > > > > > > > > > My brain is slowly melting...
> > > > > > > > > > > > > but I can't let go... yet.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > "Dave Rexel" <therex_spamenot@hotmail.com> wrote
in
> > > > message
> > > > > > > > > > > > >news:ac3rng$gvc$1@news.codecharge.com...
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > deleriously happy me
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > -----------------------------------------------------
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > CCS DOES HAVE a plugin architecture
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > for building our own wizards.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > - This makes addition of features/widgets easy
for
> > the
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > developer/advanced user and a no-brainer for the
> IDE
> > > > user
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Fortunately our favourite product is extensible
> and
> > > this
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > can let the IDE user minimise writing manual
code
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Advantages of custom component wizards:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > - easier duplicating of special features across
> > > > > pages/sites
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > - open sharing of special solutions with others
> (go
> > > > > team!!!)
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > - fewer bug nests
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > - easier debugging and
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > - simplified project-wide update
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > (regenerate project using the rewritten
component)
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > This I will experiment with and hopefuly return
> sane
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > -----------------------------------------------------
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