Chris Moore
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| Posted: 07/09/2003, 8:27 AM |
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I'm not trying to cause problems, I am just trying to reasearch & learn
other users thoughts on different tools. Has anyone used the MS VB .NET
development tool? Any thoughts on how it stacks up to CCS? I will only be
doing ASP & ASP.NET development.
Thanks again for the insights.
Chris
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Frank Rocco
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| Posted: 07/09/2003, 9:32 AM |
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CCS far exceeds VBS in terms of Productivity and value.
You may only be using ASP/ASP.NET now, but you have the option of expanding
your language in CCS.
In one word. "Productivity"
Regards,
Frank
"Chris Moore" <chris@dblayout.com> wrote in message
news:Xns93B36AE42294Fcabubba@66.180.229.147...
> I'm not trying to cause problems, I am just trying to reasearch & learn
> other users thoughts on different tools. Has anyone used the MS VB .NET
> development tool? Any thoughts on how it stacks up to CCS? I will only be
> doing ASP & ASP.NET development.
>
> Thanks again for the insights.
>
> Chris
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DonB
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| Posted: 07/09/2003, 10:24 AM |
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"Ditto"
I went down the .NET path and found it very frustrating. On the one hand
there is an enormous breadth to .NET features. But, the downside to that is
it seems the "80-20" rule applied - I only needed 20% of what it offered for
80% of what I tried to do. There was so much "noise" and I found I was
wasting so much time trying to accomplish the most basic tasks, that it
drove me away.
With CCS, I find I get the results I need, and very little time is wasted on
coercing the IDE to give me what I ask for. So I really am able to
concentrate on building a better app. Adding features incrementally is a
snap. There is still a learning curve for the new user. No one has yet
invented a tool that keeps you from doing things "the dumb way"  It
still takes a while to learn the easy way vs the hard way to build the app.
But it is much less of an issue than with .NET.
Another not-insignificant point is that Yes is highly responsive to our
support requests and I don't ever recall them telling me "that behavior is
by design" - as one Mega Software company out in Redmond WA likes to say.
DonB
"Frank Rocco" <farocco@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:behg25$j0n$1@news.codecharge.com...
> CCS far exceeds VBS in terms of Productivity and value.
> You may only be using ASP/ASP.NET now, but you have the option of
expanding
> your language in CCS.
>
> In one word. "Productivity"
>
> Regards,
>
> Frank
>
> "Chris Moore" <chris@dblayout.com> wrote in message
>news:Xns93B36AE42294Fcabubba@66.180.229.147...
> > I'm not trying to cause problems, I am just trying to reasearch & learn
> > other users thoughts on different tools. Has anyone used the MS VB .NET
> > development tool? Any thoughts on how it stacks up to CCS? I will only
be
> > doing ASP & ASP.NET development.
> >
> > Thanks again for the insights.
> >
> > Chris
>
>
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Frank Rocco
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| Posted: 07/09/2003, 11:05 AM |
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"Ditto again"
Don,
I can't agree more.
The biggest hurdle for me is the templates, just can't get used to them when
trying to add my own code. CC offered the option of choosing templates or
not, it appears that CCS does not.
Regards,
Frank
"DonB" <7432D63DBB01D03A196B1EDD80E8@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:behj43$n2q$1@news.codecharge.com...
> "Ditto"
>
> I went down the .NET path and found it very frustrating. On the one hand
> there is an enormous breadth to .NET features. But, the downside to that
is
> it seems the "80-20" rule applied - I only needed 20% of what it offered
for
> 80% of what I tried to do. There was so much "noise" and I found I was
> wasting so much time trying to accomplish the most basic tasks, that it
> drove me away.
>
> With CCS, I find I get the results I need, and very little time is wasted
on
> coercing the IDE to give me what I ask for. So I really am able to
> concentrate on building a better app. Adding features incrementally is a
> snap. There is still a learning curve for the new user. No one has yet
> invented a tool that keeps you from doing things "the dumb way" It
> still takes a while to learn the easy way vs the hard way to build the
app.
> But it is much less of an issue than with .NET.
>
> Another not-insignificant point is that Yes is highly responsive to our
> support requests and I don't ever recall them telling me "that behavior is
> by design" - as one Mega Software company out in Redmond WA likes to say.
>
> DonB
>
>
> "Frank Rocco" <farocco@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>news:behg25$j0n$1@news.codecharge.com...
> > CCS far exceeds VBS in terms of Productivity and value.
> > You may only be using ASP/ASP.NET now, but you have the option of
> expanding
> > your language in CCS.
> >
> > In one word. "Productivity"
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Frank
> >
> > "Chris Moore" <chris@dblayout.com> wrote in message
> >news:Xns93B36AE42294Fcabubba@66.180.229.147...
> > > I'm not trying to cause problems, I am just trying to reasearch &
learn
> > > other users thoughts on different tools. Has anyone used the MS VB
..NET
> > > development tool? Any thoughts on how it stacks up to CCS? I will only
> be
> > > doing ASP & ASP.NET development.
> > >
> > > Thanks again for the insights.
> > >
> > > Chris
> >
> >
>
>
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DonB
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| Posted: 07/09/2003, 12:09 PM |
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Not sure what you mean. CCS is certainly "dumb" about the Themes, always
wanting you to re-tell it what theme to use for a new page, grid, record,
etc. (why not "just like all the other ones unless I say differently"?
duh!). You can always elect to NOT use a theme at all.
I vaguely recall CC, having used it for about 30 minutes before switching to
CCS. Isn''t a "theme" more like a "basic style of project/app structure"
deal in CC, thus more a prototype app, not just like a CSS stylesheet as it
is in CCS?
DonB
"Frank Rocco" <farocco@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:behlgd$qe3$1@news.codecharge.com...
> "Ditto again"
>
> Don,
>
> I can't agree more.
>
> The biggest hurdle for me is the templates, just can't get used to them
when
> trying to add my own code. CC offered the option of choosing templates or
> not, it appears that CCS does not.
>
> Regards,
>
> Frank
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Frank Rocco
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| Posted: 07/09/2003, 12:22 PM |
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NO, I'm talking more about the template code in the html file like:
<td class="BlueNoteDataTD"><input class="BlueNoteInput" maxlength="50"
size="50" value="{s_username}" name="{s_username_Name}"> </td>
I'm still having a hard time understanding how these fields like
"{s_username}" get
filled. I tried to integrate an html editor from YUSASP.com, but gave up
because I needed to assign the contents of the editor to a database field on
the form when the user pressed the submit button using javascript.
I am able to do this using simple html code and javascript, but get lost in
the generated CCS code.
Regards,
Frank
"DonB" <7432D63DBB01D03A196B1EDD80E8@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:behp9m$vna$1@news.codecharge.com...
> Not sure what you mean. CCS is certainly "dumb" about the Themes, always
> wanting you to re-tell it what theme to use for a new page, grid, record,
> etc. (why not "just like all the other ones unless I say differently"?
> duh!). You can always elect to NOT use a theme at all.
>
> I vaguely recall CC, having used it for about 30 minutes before switching
to
> CCS. Isn''t a "theme" more like a "basic style of project/app structure"
> deal in CC, thus more a prototype app, not just like a CSS stylesheet as
it
> is in CCS?
>
> DonB
>
>
> "Frank Rocco" <farocco@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>news:behlgd$qe3$1@news.codecharge.com...
> > "Ditto again"
> >
> > Don,
> >
> > I can't agree more.
> >
> > The biggest hurdle for me is the templates, just can't get used to them
> when
> > trying to add my own code. CC offered the option of choosing templates
or
> > not, it appears that CCS does not.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Frank
>
>
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Chris Moore
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| Posted: 07/09/2003, 12:25 PM |
|
Thats where I'm at also. Not sure where (or how) to integrate my custom
code into HTML? aspx file? aspx.vb file? WHat gets regenerated and will
be lost?
Chris
"Frank Rocco" <farocco@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:behq28$14n$1@news.codecharge.com:
> NO, I'm talking more about the template code in the html file like:
>
> <td class="BlueNoteDataTD"><input class="BlueNoteInput" maxlength="50"
> size="50" value="{s_username}" name="{s_username_Name}"> </td>
>
> I'm still having a hard time understanding how these fields like
> "{s_username}" get
> filled. I tried to integrate an html editor from YUSASP.com, but gave
> up because I needed to assign the contents of the editor to a database
> field on the form when the user pressed the submit button using
> javascript.
>
> I am able to do this using simple html code and javascript, but get
> lost in the generated CCS code.
>
> Regards,
>
> Frank
> "DonB" <7432D63DBB01D03A196B1EDD80E8@comcast.net> wrote in message
>news:behp9m$vna$1@news.codecharge.com...
>> Not sure what you mean. CCS is certainly "dumb" about the Themes,
>> always wanting you to re-tell it what theme to use for a new page,
>> grid, record, etc. (why not "just like all the other ones unless I
>> say differently"? duh!). You can always elect to NOT use a theme at
>> all.
>>
>> I vaguely recall CC, having used it for about 30 minutes before
>> switching
> to
>> CCS. Isn''t a "theme" more like a "basic style of project/app
>> structure" deal in CC, thus more a prototype app, not just like a CSS
>> stylesheet as
> it
>> is in CCS?
>>
>> DonB
>>
>>
>> "Frank Rocco" <farocco@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>news:behlgd$qe3$1@news.codecharge.com...
>> > "Ditto again"
>> >
>> > Don,
>> >
>> > I can't agree more.
>> >
>> > The biggest hurdle for me is the templates, just can't get used to
>> > them
>> when
>> > trying to add my own code. CC offered the option of choosing
>> > templates
> or
>> > not, it appears that CCS does not.
>> >
>> > Regards,
>> >
>> > Frank
>>
>>
>
>
>
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DonB
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| Posted: 07/09/2003, 3:19 PM |
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I'll try to write up a little intro to templates tonight or tomorrow. I
will repost here when I have it.
DonB
"Chris Moore" <chris@dblayout.com> wrote in message
news:Xns93B3934A18B67cabubba@66.180.229.147...
> Thats where I'm at also. Not sure where (or how) to integrate my custom
> code into HTML? aspx file? aspx.vb file? WHat gets regenerated and will
> be lost?
>
> Chris
>
>
> "Frank Rocco" <farocco@hotmail.com> wrote in
>news:behq28$14n$1@news.codecharge.com:
>
> > NO, I'm talking more about the template code in the html file like:
> >
> > <td class="BlueNoteDataTD"><input class="BlueNoteInput" maxlength="50"
> > size="50" value="{s_username}" name="{s_username_Name}"> </td>
> >
> > I'm still having a hard time understanding how these fields like
> > "{s_username}" get
> > filled. I tried to integrate an html editor from YUSASP.com, but gave
> > up because I needed to assign the contents of the editor to a database
> > field on the form when the user pressed the submit button using
> > javascript.
> >
> > I am able to do this using simple html code and javascript, but get
> > lost in the generated CCS code.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Frank
> > "DonB" <7432D63DBB01D03A196B1EDD80E8@comcast.net> wrote in message
> >news:behp9m$vna$1@news.codecharge.com...
> >> Not sure what you mean. CCS is certainly "dumb" about the Themes,
> >> always wanting you to re-tell it what theme to use for a new page,
> >> grid, record, etc. (why not "just like all the other ones unless I
> >> say differently"? duh!). You can always elect to NOT use a theme at
> >> all.
> >>
> >> I vaguely recall CC, having used it for about 30 minutes before
> >> switching
> > to
> >> CCS. Isn''t a "theme" more like a "basic style of project/app
> >> structure" deal in CC, thus more a prototype app, not just like a CSS
> >> stylesheet as
> > it
> >> is in CCS?
> >>
> >> DonB
> >>
> >>
> >> "Frank Rocco" <farocco@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> >>news:behlgd$qe3$1@news.codecharge.com...
> >> > "Ditto again"
> >> >
> >> > Don,
> >> >
> >> > I can't agree more.
> >> >
> >> > The biggest hurdle for me is the templates, just can't get used to
> >> > them
> >> when
> >> > trying to add my own code. CC offered the option of choosing
> >> > templates
> > or
> >> > not, it appears that CCS does not.
> >> >
> >> > Regards,
> >> >
> >> > Frank
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
>
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Sjg
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| Posted: 07/12/2003, 3:06 AM |
|
With templates, it's very simply. The "{s_username}" values are
substituted at run time.
If you are familiar with ASP or any coding, you will see that the templates
are broken down into "areas" or "objects". Such as a Grid are, A Record
Area, a No Record, a Button, etc...
The HTML is parsed and broken down into these areas and saved as an item
(with ASP as a Dictionary item). The is built, substituting the values as
appropriate ( {s_username} is substituted with the username value for the
field). The {value in brackets} can be anything, the code (ASP, PHP, .Net,
etc..) code knows how and what to substitute the values for. It could be a
record field, a URL parameter, etc....
After Code charge builds the items, they are put back together and sent to
the client (i.e. the HTML).
The concept of a code generator has been around for many years. Developers
have been writing generators for along as they have been writing code. I
have used several code generators for Mainframe applications and they were
available at least in the 80s.
Sjg
"Frank Rocco" <farocco@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:behq28$14n$1@news.codecharge.com...
> NO, I'm talking more about the template code in the html file like:
>
> <td class="BlueNoteDataTD"><input class="BlueNoteInput" maxlength="50"
> size="50" value="{s_username}" name="{s_username_Name}"> </td>
>
> I'm still having a hard time understanding how these fields like
> "{s_username}" get
> filled. I tried to integrate an html editor from YUSASP.com, but gave up
> because I needed to assign the contents of the editor to a database field
on
> the form when the user pressed the submit button using javascript.
>
> I am able to do this using simple html code and javascript, but get lost
in
> the generated CCS code.
>
> Regards,
>
> Frank
> "DonB" <7432D63DBB01D03A196B1EDD80E8@comcast.net> wrote in message
>news:behp9m$vna$1@news.codecharge.com...
> > Not sure what you mean. CCS is certainly "dumb" about the Themes,
always
> > wanting you to re-tell it what theme to use for a new page, grid,
record,
> > etc. (why not "just like all the other ones unless I say differently"?
> > duh!). You can always elect to NOT use a theme at all.
> >
> > I vaguely recall CC, having used it for about 30 minutes before
switching
> to
> > CCS. Isn''t a "theme" more like a "basic style of project/app
structure"
> > deal in CC, thus more a prototype app, not just like a CSS stylesheet as
> it
> > is in CCS?
> >
> > DonB
> >
> >
> > "Frank Rocco" <farocco@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> >news:behlgd$qe3$1@news.codecharge.com...
> > > "Ditto again"
> > >
> > > Don,
> > >
> > > I can't agree more.
> > >
> > > The biggest hurdle for me is the templates, just can't get used to
them
> > when
> > > trying to add my own code. CC offered the option of choosing templates
> or
> > > not, it appears that CCS does not.
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > >
> > > Frank
> >
> >
>
>
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