Barry G. Sumpter
|
| Posted: 05/14/2002, 3:16 AM |
|
Are there any real ASP developers working with CodeCharge?
Or are we all just CodeCharge users copying and pasting ASP script into
CodeCharge?
Yeah, I'm a hack. I don't want to spend hour after hour hacking trial and
error routines.
I'd like some ASP developers who really know whats going on to contribute to
this forum.
I'm happy to have a fair go at trying to put it together and writting about
my results.
But I don't seem to be getting very far and with very little help available.
I don't seem to be getting any further than th very, very, basics.
I've had a look at the tutorial but I feel they are very basic as well.
I've spent 4 weeks looking at CC2 and CCS with very little to show for it.
Is there anyone out there who can give me some encouragement, hope, or
direction?
Thanks for all those who have attempted help me so far.
It just doesn't seem to be working out.
Barry G. Sumpter
|
|
|
 |
Raxip
|
| Posted: 05/14/2002, 7:12 AM |
|
What about buying an ASP book ....
Nothing in life comes easy my friend, I am in the same boat leraning c# and
It would be foolish to think that I should get hand outs.
"Barry G. Sumpter" <bsumpter@bigpond.net.au> wrote in message
news:abqo53$ssr$1@news.codecharge.com...
> Are there any real ASP developers working with CodeCharge?
>
> Or are we all just CodeCharge users copying and pasting ASP script into
> CodeCharge?
>
> Yeah, I'm a hack. I don't want to spend hour after hour hacking trial and
> error routines.
>
> I'd like some ASP developers who really know whats going on to contribute
to
> this forum.
>
> I'm happy to have a fair go at trying to put it together and writting
about
> my results.
>
> But I don't seem to be getting very far and with very little help
available.
>
> I don't seem to be getting any further than th very, very, basics.
>
> I've had a look at the tutorial but I feel they are very basic as well.
>
> I've spent 4 weeks looking at CC2 and CCS with very little to show for it.
>
> Is there anyone out there who can give me some encouragement, hope, or
> direction?
>
> Thanks for all those who have attempted help me so far.
>
> It just doesn't seem to be working out.
>
> Barry G. Sumpter
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
|
|
|
|
Jan B. Ferguson
|
| Posted: 05/14/2002, 8:38 AM |
|
This is a CodeCharge support group. Not an ASP learning camp. FWIW, there
have been many programmers who have contributed ASP, PHP and other code in
this forum to assist others.
If you want to learn more about ASP, I recommend you find a newsgroup which
caters to that very topic.
"Barry G. Sumpter" <bsumpter@bigpond.net.au> wrote in message
news:abqo53$ssr$1@news.codecharge.com...
> Are there any real ASP developers working with CodeCharge?
>
> Or are we all just CodeCharge users copying and pasting ASP script into
> CodeCharge?
>
> Yeah, I'm a hack. I don't want to spend hour after hour hacking trial and
> error routines.
>
> I'd like some ASP developers who really know whats going on to contribute
to
> this forum.
>
> I'm happy to have a fair go at trying to put it together and writting
about
> my results.
>
> But I don't seem to be getting very far and with very little help
available.
>
> I don't seem to be getting any further than th very, very, basics.
>
> I've had a look at the tutorial but I feel they are very basic as well.
>
> I've spent 4 weeks looking at CC2 and CCS with very little to show for it.
>
> Is there anyone out there who can give me some encouragement, hope, or
> direction?
>
> Thanks for all those who have attempted help me so far.
>
> It just doesn't seem to be working out.
>
> Barry G. Sumpter
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
|
|
|
|
Stan Jacox
|
| Posted: 05/14/2002, 12:32 PM |
|
Hello Barry
"Barry G. Sumpter" <bsumpter@bigpond.net.au> wrote in message
news:abqo53$ssr$1@news.codecharge.com...
> Are there any real ASP developers working with CodeCharge?
>
Yes, many are using this forum as a support contact with their questions
about CC but not ASP specifically.
> Or are we all just CodeCharge users copying and pasting ASP script into
> CodeCharge?
Some are and most are not, I suspect. Any programmer builds up, over time,
a set of often used routines and techniques. They save a lot of time and
have proven reliable. That tool set is pretty individual however,
reflecting more of their work assignments than their knowledge. After a
while, you will build up a reliable set of tools appropriate for your work
also. But first, the basics need to be understood well. There are many
good books on ASP and several ASP specific web sites that can shorten that
learning curve but it is a learning curve and takes dedicating time and
effort to learn the basics enough for them to be tools rather than
obstacles.
>
> Yeah, I'm a hack. I don't want to spend hour after hour hacking trial and
> error routines.
See the above comment about the basics. If something does not work, it
should not require blindly testing alternatives for hours if the
fundamentals are grasped firmly. Spend those extra hours studying basic ASP
practice and technique instead of experimenting and you will find the time
and frustration savings in the future well worth the effort.
>
> I'd like some ASP developers who really know what's going on to contribute
to
> this forum.
They do, but it is usually in the form of specific suggestions about
narrowly cast problems. They are working, and teaching general principles
is something that they probably do not have the time for.
>
> I'm happy to have a fair go at trying to put it together and writting
about
> my results.
Many authors have compiled their own search results into some of the books
spoken about before. Why reinvent the wheel? Others have written original
thoughts and from personal experience....all great sources of exactly the
information you are looking for.
>
> But I don't seem to be getting very far and with very little help
available.
See the above comments about the dozens of books which offer help with ASP.
I find that the books are more useful for me because I retain more from
printed material than reading a CRT displays of the ASP web sites. I guess
I am just old fashion that way.
>
> I don't seem to be getting any further than the very, very, basics.
>
> I've had a look at the tutorial but I feel they are very basic as well.
Yes, the tutorials are basic as they need to be to allow you the first
experimental creations. Studying the code created from those tutorials will
be a wealth of information about how it does things. Within the included
examples are answers to a vast array of practical problems developers would
run into every day.
>
> I've spent 4 weeks looking at CC2 and CCS with very little to show for it.
I would suggest that your time was not spent effectively. If you are not
able to get a great deal done in a day or two, maybe your understanding of
the underlying fundamentals is not what it should be. Maybe you are
tackling more advanced problems and work assignments than your current
knowledge allows. Try making a plan of studying the principles of ASP and
SQL in a more systematic way and break down your projects into smaller
understandable modules. I am not programmer and would consider myself an
advanced novice or piss poor intermediate but I've been able to do just
about everything that I set out to do with CC and CCS. Now, my efforts are
to polish the applications and optimize them but everything works as
planned. I am just a hobbyist but my time is valuable to me as well, so
studying a few books and studying the code generated by CC has greatly
reduced my need to experiment .
>
> Is there anyone out there who can give me some encouragement, hope, or
> direction?
What are your goals? Is this part of your normal job or is it for projects
you are taking on outside of your normal duties? There is no doubt you will
learn to use these tools to generate effective code, the question is are you
interested in investing $100(unless you have a great library) and a few
weeks reading? Cracking the books is not as exciting as diving into
creating a site but it will save days or weeks of the very unexciting
attempt to fix mysterious non-functioning code
>
> Thanks for all those who have attempted help me so far.
>
> It just doesn't seem to be working out.
>
> Barry G. Sumpter
Good luck Barry, you'll do fine. I have been able to create effective
applications so anyone will be able to. And do not give up on Studio, sure
it is different so takes some getting used to, but the effort will pay off
greatly. It is really cool.
Stan
|
|
|
|
Barry G. Sumpter
|
| Posted: 05/14/2002, 2:20 PM |
|
Hi all,
Thanks for the suggestions Raxip, Jan, and Stan.
I'm trying to get out of the 'coding' mentality.
My coworker has left me with a huge learning curve after developing a
very substantial amount of
websites using CodeCharge2. Which everyone loves.
Where he claims NO additional scripting was involved.
(Thats why I got overly excited about being just a CodeCharge user.
Again, NOT a script writer.)
Just some 'thinking outside the CodeCharge square'.
He doesn't have the cool date pop ups or clear for seach selection or
page and sort retention, etc....
Which would be my improvement contribution while learning CodeCharge.
Just those little extra features to make a user friendly interaction.
I've been a VB developer for the last 8 years.
Having to crack open a $200AU book about ASP is not the direction I want
to go.
I don't appreciate Rapix suggesting we're 'expecting handouts' because
we're here asking questions.
Others read these threads and benefit as well.
Once I get past these novice issues, the advance issues will follow
close behind and we'll all benefit
from those as well.
My coworker has managed some brilliant work and I'm happy to share what
I learn from his work and
would be honored posting the issues I learn as 'appreciation' for your
suggestions and help.
This is what makes a newsgroup work for me.
Many thanks especially to Stan for his thurough response to my hard to
ask and hard to answer questions.
Thanks for the encouragement, mate. It's just what I needed.
I'd like to develop a tool set as you suggested.
Knowing the scripts will work together would be a huge plus.
Thanks all for allowing me to express my concerns and babble on.
Wishing you all an excellent CodeCharge future.
Barry G. Sumpter
"Barry G. Sumpter" <bsumpter@bigpond.net.au> wrote in message
news:abqo53$ssr$1@news.codecharge.com...
> Are there any real ASP developers working with CodeCharge?
>
> Or are we all just CodeCharge users copying and pasting ASP script into
> CodeCharge?
>
> Yeah, I'm a hack. I don't want to spend hour after hour hacking trial and
> error routines.
>
> I'd like some ASP developers who really know whats going on to contribute
to
> this forum.
>
> I'm happy to have a fair go at trying to put it together and writting
about
> my results.
>
> But I don't seem to be getting very far and with very little help
available.
>
> I don't seem to be getting any further than th very, very, basics.
>
> I've had a look at the tutorial but I feel they are very basic as well.
>
> I've spent 4 weeks looking at CC2 and CCS with very little to show for it.
>
> Is there anyone out there who can give me some encouragement, hope, or
> direction?
>
> Thanks for all those who have attempted help me so far.
>
> It just doesn't seem to be working out.
>
> Barry G. Sumpter
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
|
|
|
|
Shawn Mason
|
| Posted: 05/14/2002, 2:23 PM |
|
Impressive and well thought out reply. I develop software for a living and
invest thousands of dollars into my education. Rarely do I need to ask a
question on a news group unless it is specific to a product (like trying to
understand the CC model) because most of my needs I find the answers to in
books. I have found CC2 to be very productive once you understand the
framework. I expect CCS to do the same, but for now, it seems wrought with
too many issues yet unresolved. FYI, Barry, I have approximately 12 books
on ASP alone along with a few others dedicated just to VBScript and
JavaScript. A solid understanding of db design will go further with CC then
practically anything else. If the foundation is flawed, then the house
cannot stand.
HTH and hang in there,
Shawn Mason
"Stan Jacox" <km6xz@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:abroos$uoc$1@news.codecharge.com...
> Hello Barry
> "Barry G. Sumpter" <bsumpter@bigpond.net.au> wrote in message
>news:abqo53$ssr$1@news.codecharge.com...
> > Are there any real ASP developers working with CodeCharge?
> >
> Yes, many are using this forum as a support contact with their questions
> about CC but not ASP specifically.
>
> > Or are we all just CodeCharge users copying and pasting ASP script into
> > CodeCharge?
> Some are and most are not, I suspect. Any programmer builds up, over
time,
> a set of often used routines and techniques. They save a lot of time and
> have proven reliable. That tool set is pretty individual however,
> reflecting more of their work assignments than their knowledge. After a
> while, you will build up a reliable set of tools appropriate for your work
> also. But first, the basics need to be understood well. There are many
> good books on ASP and several ASP specific web sites that can shorten that
> learning curve but it is a learning curve and takes dedicating time and
> effort to learn the basics enough for them to be tools rather than
> obstacles.
>
> >
> > Yeah, I'm a hack. I don't want to spend hour after hour hacking trial
and
> > error routines.
> See the above comment about the basics. If something does not work, it
> should not require blindly testing alternatives for hours if the
> fundamentals are grasped firmly. Spend those extra hours studying basic
ASP
> practice and technique instead of experimenting and you will find the time
> and frustration savings in the future well worth the effort.
> >
> > I'd like some ASP developers who really know what's going on to
contribute
> to
> > this forum.
>
> They do, but it is usually in the form of specific suggestions about
> narrowly cast problems. They are working, and teaching general principles
> is something that they probably do not have the time for.
> >
> > I'm happy to have a fair go at trying to put it together and writting
> about
> > my results.
>
> Many authors have compiled their own search results into some of the books
> spoken about before. Why reinvent the wheel? Others have written original
> thoughts and from personal experience....all great sources of exactly the
> information you are looking for.
>
> >
> > But I don't seem to be getting very far and with very little help
> available.
>
> See the above comments about the dozens of books which offer help with
ASP.
> I find that the books are more useful for me because I retain more from
> printed material than reading a CRT displays of the ASP web sites. I
guess
> I am just old fashion that way.
> >
> > I don't seem to be getting any further than the very, very, basics.
> >
> > I've had a look at the tutorial but I feel they are very basic as well.
> Yes, the tutorials are basic as they need to be to allow you the first
> experimental creations. Studying the code created from those tutorials
will
> be a wealth of information about how it does things. Within the included
> examples are answers to a vast array of practical problems developers
would
> run into every day.
> >
> > I've spent 4 weeks looking at CC2 and CCS with very little to show for
it.
>
> I would suggest that your time was not spent effectively. If you are not
> able to get a great deal done in a day or two, maybe your understanding of
> the underlying fundamentals is not what it should be. Maybe you are
> tackling more advanced problems and work assignments than your current
> knowledge allows. Try making a plan of studying the principles of ASP and
> SQL in a more systematic way and break down your projects into smaller
> understandable modules. I am not programmer and would consider myself an
> advanced novice or piss poor intermediate but I've been able to do just
> about everything that I set out to do with CC and CCS. Now, my efforts
are
> to polish the applications and optimize them but everything works as
> planned. I am just a hobbyist but my time is valuable to me as well, so
> studying a few books and studying the code generated by CC has greatly
> reduced my need to experiment .
> >
> > Is there anyone out there who can give me some encouragement, hope, or
> > direction?
>
> What are your goals? Is this part of your normal job or is it for
projects
> you are taking on outside of your normal duties? There is no doubt you
will
> learn to use these tools to generate effective code, the question is are
you
> interested in investing $100(unless you have a great library) and a few
> weeks reading? Cracking the books is not as exciting as diving into
> creating a site but it will save days or weeks of the very unexciting
> attempt to fix mysterious non-functioning code
> >
> > Thanks for all those who have attempted help me so far.
> >
> > It just doesn't seem to be working out.
> >
> > Barry G. Sumpter
> Good luck Barry, you'll do fine. I have been able to create effective
> applications so anyone will be able to. And do not give up on Studio,
sure
> it is different so takes some getting used to, but the effort will pay off
> greatly. It is really cool.
> Stan
>
>
|
|
|
|
Ian Stephenson
|
| Posted: 05/14/2002, 4:32 PM |
|
Barry,
I'm resident in Australia also and you do not have to spend $200 AUS in
order to get a good text for ASP development. Have a look at
http://www.bookware.com.au (no I'm not affiliated with the company, just a
happy customer). They have a good range of books, discount heavily, and
even though I am based in Tasmania, deliver within 2-3 days if the book is
in stock. Even though I've used Amazon in the past, shipping costs to
Australia are a killer. I found "Active Server Pages 3.0", ISBN: 0672318636
to be a good introductory text ($68 AUS) or if your using .NET "Programming
ASP.NET", ISBN: 0596001711 ($108 AUS). Given your extensive VB background
you should pick it up quickly.
My own experience has been that the CodeCharge event model has been the most
difficult to come to grips with however I'm lucky enough to have a colleague
in the same office who is a CodeCharge whiz.
Good luck,
Ian Stephenson
"Barry G. Sumpter" <bsumpter@bigpond.net.au> wrote in message
news:abrv3f$p67$1@news.codecharge.com...
> Hi all,
>
> Thanks for the suggestions Raxip, Jan, and Stan.
>
> I'm trying to get out of the 'coding' mentality.
>
> My coworker has left me with a huge learning curve after developing a
> very substantial amount of
> websites using CodeCharge2. Which everyone loves.
> Where he claims NO additional scripting was involved.
> (Thats why I got overly excited about being just a CodeCharge user.
> Again, NOT a script writer.)
> Just some 'thinking outside the CodeCharge square'.
>
> He doesn't have the cool date pop ups or clear for seach selection or
> page and sort retention, etc....
> Which would be my improvement contribution while learning CodeCharge.
> Just those little extra features to make a user friendly interaction.
>
>
> I've been a VB developer for the last 8 years.
> Having to crack open a $200AU book about ASP is not the direction I
want
> to go.
>
> I don't appreciate Rapix suggesting we're 'expecting handouts' because
> we're here asking questions.
> Others read these threads and benefit as well.
> Once I get past these novice issues, the advance issues will follow
> close behind and we'll all benefit
> from those as well.
> My coworker has managed some brilliant work and I'm happy to share
what
> I learn from his work and
> would be honored posting the issues I learn as 'appreciation' for your
> suggestions and help.
> This is what makes a newsgroup work for me.
>
> Many thanks especially to Stan for his thurough response to my hard to
> ask and hard to answer questions.
> Thanks for the encouragement, mate. It's just what I needed.
>
> I'd like to develop a tool set as you suggested.
> Knowing the scripts will work together would be a huge plus.
>
> Thanks all for allowing me to express my concerns and babble on.
>
> Wishing you all an excellent CodeCharge future.
>
> Barry G. Sumpter
>
>
>
> "Barry G. Sumpter" <bsumpter@bigpond.net.au> wrote in message
>news:abqo53$ssr$1@news.codecharge.com...
> > Are there any real ASP developers working with CodeCharge?
> >
> > Or are we all just CodeCharge users copying and pasting ASP script into
> > CodeCharge?
> >
> > Yeah, I'm a hack. I don't want to spend hour after hour hacking trial
and
> > error routines.
> >
> > I'd like some ASP developers who really know whats going on to
contribute
> to
> > this forum.
> >
> > I'm happy to have a fair go at trying to put it together and writting
> about
> > my results.
> >
> > But I don't seem to be getting very far and with very little help
> available.
> >
> > I don't seem to be getting any further than th very, very, basics.
> >
> > I've had a look at the tutorial but I feel they are very basic as well.
> >
> > I've spent 4 weeks looking at CC2 and CCS with very little to show for
it.
> >
> > Is there anyone out there who can give me some encouragement, hope, or
> > direction?
> >
> > Thanks for all those who have attempted help me so far.
> >
> > It just doesn't seem to be working out.
> >
> > Barry G. Sumpter
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
|
|
|
|
Dave Rexel
|
| Posted: 05/14/2002, 5:25 PM |
|
Hi there Barry G
To build websites by pasting bits of code here and there without deep
understanding of, in your case SQL, ASP, JS, sessions, cookies and
authentication can lead to woeful muddles that can intensely plague those
who ignore coding skill.
This is a slow moving NG and its been a bit flooded at times by you, the
level of your questions does not indicate that 8 years of VB has resulted in
the code skills needed for web-application development. Please invest more
time in the deep study of above to make the best use of your valuable time.
"Barry G. Sumpter" <bsumpter@bigpond.net.au> wrote in message
news:abrv3f$p67$1@news.codecharge.com...
> Hi all,
>
> Thanks for the suggestions Raxip, Jan, and Stan.
>
> I'm trying to get out of the 'coding' mentality.
>
> My coworker has left me with a huge learning curve after developing a
> very substantial amount of
> websites using CodeCharge2. Which everyone loves.
> Where he claims NO additional scripting was involved.
> (Thats why I got overly excited about being just a CodeCharge user.
> Again, NOT a script writer.)
> Just some 'thinking outside the CodeCharge square'.
>
> He doesn't have the cool date pop ups or clear for seach selection or
> page and sort retention, etc....
> Which would be my improvement contribution while learning CodeCharge.
> Just those little extra features to make a user friendly interaction.
>
>
> I've been a VB developer for the last 8 years.
> Having to crack open a $200AU book about ASP is not the direction I
want
> to go.
>
> I don't appreciate Rapix suggesting we're 'expecting handouts' because
> we're here asking questions.
> Others read these threads and benefit as well.
> Once I get past these novice issues, the advance issues will follow
> close behind and we'll all benefit
> from those as well.
> My coworker has managed some brilliant work and I'm happy to share
what
> I learn from his work and
> would be honored posting the issues I learn as 'appreciation' for your
> suggestions and help.
> This is what makes a newsgroup work for me.
>
> Many thanks especially to Stan for his thurough response to my hard to
> ask and hard to answer questions.
> Thanks for the encouragement, mate. It's just what I needed.
>
> I'd like to develop a tool set as you suggested.
> Knowing the scripts will work together would be a huge plus.
>
> Thanks all for allowing me to express my concerns and babble on.
>
> Wishing you all an excellent CodeCharge future.
>
> Barry G. Sumpter
>
>
>
> "Barry G. Sumpter" <bsumpter@bigpond.net.au> wrote in message
>news:abqo53$ssr$1@news.codecharge.com...
> > Are there any real ASP developers working with CodeCharge?
> >
> > Or are we all just CodeCharge users copying and pasting ASP script into
> > CodeCharge?
> >
> > Yeah, I'm a hack. I don't want to spend hour after hour hacking trial
and
> > error routines.
> >
> > I'd like some ASP developers who really know whats going on to
contribute
> to
> > this forum.
> >
> > I'm happy to have a fair go at trying to put it together and writting
> about
> > my results.
> >
> > But I don't seem to be getting very far and with very little help
> available.
> >
> > I don't seem to be getting any further than th very, very, basics.
> >
> > I've had a look at the tutorial but I feel they are very basic as well.
> >
> > I've spent 4 weeks looking at CC2 and CCS with very little to show for
it.
> >
> > Is there anyone out there who can give me some encouragement, hope, or
> > direction?
> >
> > Thanks for all those who have attempted help me so far.
> >
> > It just doesn't seem to be working out.
> >
> > Barry G. Sumpter
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
|
|
|
|
Eladesor
|
| Posted: 05/15/2002, 7:05 PM |
|
Hi,
I think some of the replies in this post have been a bit OTT, having been a
member of this forum from the very early days (even though I don't post a
lot). From day one - the ethos has been helping others out - regardless of
their knowledge level or ability.
Just think about it... if everyone was as knowledgeable as they make out -
why are they posting questions here? Surely the intricacies of CC are
nothing to the skilled programmers here... or are they not so skilled hence
their use of CC (but that's another topic)?
Come one Guys - give him a break - CC is a wonderful product and what
enhances that is the contributing users / moan ;)
Regards
Eladesor
"Barry G. Sumpter" <bsumpter@bigpond.net.au> wrote in message
news:abqo53$ssr$1@news.codecharge.com...
> Are there any real ASP developers working with CodeCharge?
>
> Or are we all just CodeCharge users copying and pasting ASP script into
> CodeCharge?
>
> Yeah, I'm a hack. I don't want to spend hour after hour hacking trial and
> error routines.
>
> I'd like some ASP developers who really know whats going on to contribute
to
> this forum.
>
> I'm happy to have a fair go at trying to put it together and writting
about
> my results.
>
> But I don't seem to be getting very far and with very little help
available.
>
> I don't seem to be getting any further than th very, very, basics.
>
> I've had a look at the tutorial but I feel they are very basic as well.
>
> I've spent 4 weeks looking at CC2 and CCS with very little to show for it.
>
> Is there anyone out there who can give me some encouragement, hope, or
> direction?
>
> Thanks for all those who have attempted help me so far.
>
> It just doesn't seem to be working out.
>
> Barry G. Sumpter
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
|
|
|
|
Eddy - IntraManga
|
| Posted: 05/16/2002, 1:24 AM |
|
I agree 100% on this.
For myself , a lot of times I am just too afraid to ask a question , and
prefer sticking with my problem.
- Or the answer you get is too technical , I don't get the picture.
- Asking for a piece of code is like asking for a credit card number.
- Or you get answers like the previous ones , . buy a good book (If you don'
t want to help or sharing some code , than don't waste your time hitting the
reply button , nobody forces you )
- If you complain you get flamed.
I know there are also a lot of people who really try to help and I know also
that not everybody has the time to find solutions for others , but if you
have a good piece of code already , is it so hard to share it? Good things
in live are , give a little bit - take a little bit.
At the time I bought CC also , having in mind that little knowledge was
needed to build applications. This is true with the applications that comes
with the product , but they are too basic in a lot of ways. I understand
also that the CC crew can not write everyone's application and that's why
sharing some extra code would do a lot of good to us - people with a low
level of programming. I never bought CC to become a full high level
programmer.
Nevertheless CC is a good program for a very reasonable price , I can do a
lot of things I could never have done before , but I know for a fact that I
could achieve a lot more with some extra help or coding , without to become
an expert in programming. If I would maybe I wouldn't need CC 
And if you look around to some other newsgroups , i.e. the NOF group , you
can see the difference people helping each other and everybody benefiting
from it.
This is just my personal point of view , but still glad I have CC
Regards to all,
Ed
"Eladesor" <Eladesor@NOSPAMbtinternet.com> wrote in message
news:abv44p$lre$1@news.codecharge.com...
> Hi,
>
> I think some of the replies in this post have been a bit OTT, having been
a
> member of this forum from the very early days (even though I don't post a
> lot). From day one - the ethos has been helping others out - regardless of
> their knowledge level or ability.
> Just think about it... if everyone was as knowledgeable as they make out -
> why are they posting questions here? Surely the intricacies of CC are
> nothing to the skilled programmers here... or are they not so skilled
hence
> their use of CC (but that's another topic)?
>
> Come one Guys - give him a break - CC is a wonderful product and what
> enhances that is the contributing users / moan ;)
>
> Regards
> Eladesor
>
> "Barry G. Sumpter" <bsumpter@bigpond.net.au> wrote in message
>news:abqo53$ssr$1@news.codecharge.com...
> > Are there any real ASP developers working with CodeCharge?
> >
> > Or are we all just CodeCharge users copying and pasting ASP script into
> > CodeCharge?
> >
> > Yeah, I'm a hack. I don't want to spend hour after hour hacking trial
and
> > error routines.
> >
> > I'd like some ASP developers who really know whats going on to
contribute
> to
> > this forum.
> >
> > I'm happy to have a fair go at trying to put it together and writting
> about
> > my results.
> >
> > But I don't seem to be getting very far and with very little help
> available.
> >
> > I don't seem to be getting any further than th very, very, basics.
> >
> > I've had a look at the tutorial but I feel they are very basic as well.
> >
> > I've spent 4 weeks looking at CC2 and CCS with very little to show for
it.
> >
> > Is there anyone out there who can give me some encouragement, hope, or
> > direction?
> >
> > Thanks for all those who have attempted help me so far.
> >
> > It just doesn't seem to be working out.
> >
> > Barry G. Sumpter
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
|
|
|
|
Dave Rexel
|
| Posted: 05/16/2002, 4:24 PM |
|
The topic and the original message body of this thread is inflamatory and
intensely irritating to a serious coder.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
quote :
>>Are there any real ASP developers working with CodeCharge?
>>Or are we all just CodeCharge users copying and pasting ASP script into
CodeCharge?
>>Yeah, I'm a hack. I don't want to spend hour after hour hacking trial and
error routines.
>>I'd like some ASP developers who really know whats going on to contribute
to
this forum.
end quote
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
First off, it would be very helpful if CC or CCS had a plugin architecture
for building our own wizards.
- This would make addition of features/widgets easy for the
developer/advanced user and a nobrainer for the IDE user
Unfortunately our favourite product is not yet at this point and this leads
to manual code being written/pasted in leading to
- difficulty in duplicating special features across pages/sites
- difficulty in sharing special solutions with others
- more bug nests (mostly for cut n pasters)
The majority of competent coders must occasionally seek the developers help
on where and how to insert special features when the products documentation
is so poor in this aspect.
- That the advanced coders do not see the need to bail out newbies is in my
opinion due to the excellent and very timely answers from the developers,
they are really informative, polite and helpful.
I reiterate : developing live dynamic websites on the Internet by copy n
pasting and little knowledge of the spectrum of protocols is dangerous for
the owners/operators and users of such websites because it is the developers
skill that is the last barrier against malicious visitors.
I would not trust my website/business to a cut n paster, would you? However
I do hope that this NG will develop a more helpful and cooperative userbase,
its just too slow-moving and sparsely populated at the moment to compare to
NOF or DW/UD NGs. Until then :
Go on... study a lot.... it wont hurt you a bit.
"Eddy - IntraManga" <ed@lamanga.org> wrote in message
news:abvqca$sb3$1@news.codecharge.com...
> I agree 100% on this.
>
> For myself , a lot of times I am just too afraid to ask a question , and
> prefer sticking with my problem.
>
> - Or the answer you get is too technical , I don't get the picture.
>
> - Asking for a piece of code is like asking for a credit card number.
>
> - Or you get answers like the previous ones , . buy a good book (If you
don'
> t want to help or sharing some code , than don't waste your time hitting
the
> reply button , nobody forces you )
>
> - If you complain you get flamed.
>
> I know there are also a lot of people who really try to help and I know
also
> that not everybody has the time to find solutions for others , but if you
> have a good piece of code already , is it so hard to share it? Good things
> in live are , give a little bit - take a little bit.
>
> At the time I bought CC also , having in mind that little knowledge was
> needed to build applications. This is true with the applications that
comes
> with the product , but they are too basic in a lot of ways. I understand
> also that the CC crew can not write everyone's application and that's why
> sharing some extra code would do a lot of good to us - people with a low
> level of programming. I never bought CC to become a full high level
> programmer.
>
> Nevertheless CC is a good program for a very reasonable price , I can do a
> lot of things I could never have done before , but I know for a fact that
I
> could achieve a lot more with some extra help or coding , without to
become
> an expert in programming. If I would maybe I wouldn't need CC
>
> And if you look around to some other newsgroups , i.e. the NOF group , you
> can see the difference people helping each other and everybody benefiting
> from it.
>
> This is just my personal point of view , but still glad I have CC
>
> Regards to all,
>
> Ed
>
>
>
> "Eladesor" <Eladesor@NOSPAMbtinternet.com> wrote in message
>news:abv44p$lre$1@news.codecharge.com...
> > Hi,
> >
> > I think some of the replies in this post have been a bit OTT, having
been
> a
> > member of this forum from the very early days (even though I don't post
a
> > lot). From day one - the ethos has been helping others out - regardless
of
> > their knowledge level or ability.
> > Just think about it... if everyone was as knowledgeable as they make
out -
> > why are they posting questions here? Surely the intricacies of CC are
> > nothing to the skilled programmers here... or are they not so skilled
> hence
> > their use of CC (but that's another topic)?
> >
> > Come one Guys - give him a break - CC is a wonderful product and what
> > enhances that is the contributing users / moan ;)
> >
> > Regards
> > Eladesor
> >
> > "Barry G. Sumpter" <bsumpter@bigpond.net.au> wrote in message
> >news:abqo53$ssr$1@news.codecharge.com...
> > > Are there any real ASP developers working with CodeCharge?
> > >
> > > Or are we all just CodeCharge users copying and pasting ASP script
into
> > > CodeCharge?
> > >
> > > Yeah, I'm a hack. I don't want to spend hour after hour hacking trial
> and
> > > error routines.
> > >
> > > I'd like some ASP developers who really know whats going on to
> contribute
> > to
> > > this forum.
> > >
> > > I'm happy to have a fair go at trying to put it together and writting
> > about
> > > my results.
> > >
> > > But I don't seem to be getting very far and with very little help
> > available.
> > >
> > > I don't seem to be getting any further than th very, very, basics.
> > >
> > > I've had a look at the tutorial but I feel they are very basic as
well.
> > >
> > > I've spent 4 weeks looking at CC2 and CCS with very little to show for
> it.
> > >
> > > Is there anyone out there who can give me some encouragement, hope, or
> > > direction?
> > >
> > > Thanks for all those who have attempted help me so far.
> > >
> > > It just doesn't seem to be working out.
> > >
> > > Barry G. Sumpter
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
|
|
|
|
Barry G. Sumpter
|
| Posted: 05/16/2002, 5:46 PM |
|
Hi Dave,
Out of the latest 2500 posts on this specific NG you've posted 5 times -
2 of which are aggressive responses to this thread.
You're stiring up alot of negativity for someone who hasn't (in my
opinion) really contributed to this NG.
If you don't want to help support novices because you think your just
too good then by all means don't bother.
Take the next intelligent step, stop bullying, and leave us novices
alone to sort out how we want
to approach developing with CodeCharge ourselves.
As stated by other CodeCharge enthusiasts, it takes courage to ask a
question.
Potentially, exposing yourself to ridicule.
Ironically, its this type of ridicule which help us to identify the
bullies.
I'm happy you consider youself a serious coder.
And I encourage you to contribute in a constructive manner when you feel
like it.
As well as expressing your personal opinions.
I'd ask you to have a thought about how you write your responses and how
it might affect others,
but I catch myself as well reading over my posts and thinking I could
have said that better of more clearly.
I attempt to read each post with emotions turned off - I call it
'deadpan delivery' - just that facts man.
I look forward to your contructive contibutions in the future.
Barry G. Sumpter
P.S. Thanks to all those who replied with advice and encouragment
publically and privately.
All the best to you all.
"Dave Rexel" <therex_spamenot@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:ac1f2k$rck$1@news.codecharge.com...
> The topic and the original message body of this thread is inflamatory and
> intensely irritating to a serious coder.
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
> quote :
> >>Are there any real ASP developers working with CodeCharge?
>
> >>Or are we all just CodeCharge users copying and pasting ASP script into
> CodeCharge?
>
> >>Yeah, I'm a hack. I don't want to spend hour after hour hacking trial
and
> error routines.
>
> >>I'd like some ASP developers who really know whats going on to
contribute
> to
> this forum.
>
> end quote
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
> ---
>
> First off, it would be very helpful if CC or CCS had a plugin architecture
> for building our own wizards.
>
> - This would make addition of features/widgets easy for the
> developer/advanced user and a nobrainer for the IDE user
>
> Unfortunately our favourite product is not yet at this point and this
leads
> to manual code being written/pasted in leading to
> - difficulty in duplicating special features across pages/sites
> - difficulty in sharing special solutions with others
> - more bug nests (mostly for cut n pasters)
>
> The majority of competent coders must occasionally seek the developers
help
> on where and how to insert special features when the products
documentation
> is so poor in this aspect.
>
> - That the advanced coders do not see the need to bail out newbies is in
my
> opinion due to the excellent and very timely answers from the developers,
> they are really informative, polite and helpful.
>
> I reiterate : developing live dynamic websites on the Internet by copy n
> pasting and little knowledge of the spectrum of protocols is dangerous for
> the owners/operators and users of such websites because it is the
developers
> skill that is the last barrier against malicious visitors.
>
> I would not trust my website/business to a cut n paster, would you?
However
> I do hope that this NG will develop a more helpful and cooperative
userbase,
> its just too slow-moving and sparsely populated at the moment to compare
to
> NOF or DW/UD NGs. Until then :
>
> Go on... study a lot.... it wont hurt you a bit.
>
>
>
> "Eddy - IntraManga" <ed@lamanga.org> wrote in message
>news:abvqca$sb3$1@news.codecharge.com...
> > I agree 100% on this.
> >
> > For myself , a lot of times I am just too afraid to ask a question , and
> > prefer sticking with my problem.
> >
> > - Or the answer you get is too technical , I don't get the picture.
> >
> > - Asking for a piece of code is like asking for a credit card number.
> >
> > - Or you get answers like the previous ones , . buy a good book (If you
> don'
> > t want to help or sharing some code , than don't waste your time hitting
> the
> > reply button , nobody forces you )
> >
> > - If you complain you get flamed.
> >
> > I know there are also a lot of people who really try to help and I know
> also
> > that not everybody has the time to find solutions for others , but if
you
> > have a good piece of code already , is it so hard to share it? Good
things
> > in live are , give a little bit - take a little bit.
> >
> > At the time I bought CC also , having in mind that little knowledge was
> > needed to build applications. This is true with the applications that
> comes
> > with the product , but they are too basic in a lot of ways. I understand
> > also that the CC crew can not write everyone's application and that's
why
> > sharing some extra code would do a lot of good to us - people with a low
> > level of programming. I never bought CC to become a full high level
> > programmer.
> >
> > Nevertheless CC is a good program for a very reasonable price , I can do
a
> > lot of things I could never have done before , but I know for a fact
that
> I
> > could achieve a lot more with some extra help or coding , without to
> become
> > an expert in programming. If I would maybe I wouldn't need CC
> >
> > And if you look around to some other newsgroups , i.e. the NOF group ,
you
> > can see the difference people helping each other and everybody
benefiting
> > from it.
> >
> > This is just my personal point of view , but still glad I have CC
> >
> > Regards to all,
> >
> > Ed
> >
> >
> >
> > "Eladesor" <Eladesor@NOSPAMbtinternet.com> wrote in message
> >news:abv44p$lre$1@news.codecharge.com...
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > I think some of the replies in this post have been a bit OTT, having
> been
> > a
> > > member of this forum from the very early days (even though I don't
post
> a
> > > lot). From day one - the ethos has been helping others out -
regardless
> of
> > > their knowledge level or ability.
> > > Just think about it... if everyone was as knowledgeable as they make
> out -
> > > why are they posting questions here? Surely the intricacies of CC are
> > > nothing to the skilled programmers here... or are they not so skilled
> > hence
> > > their use of CC (but that's another topic)?
> > >
> > > Come one Guys - give him a break - CC is a wonderful product and what
> > > enhances that is the contributing users / moan ;)
> > >
> > > Regards
> > > Eladesor
> > >
> > > "Barry G. Sumpter" <bsumpter@bigpond.net.au> wrote in message
> > >news:abqo53$ssr$1@news.codecharge.com...
> > > > Are there any real ASP developers working with CodeCharge?
> > > >
> > > > Or are we all just CodeCharge users copying and pasting ASP script
> into
> > > > CodeCharge?
> > > >
> > > > Yeah, I'm a hack. I don't want to spend hour after hour hacking
trial
> > and
> > > > error routines.
> > > >
> > > > I'd like some ASP developers who really know whats going on to
> > contribute
> > > to
> > > > this forum.
> > > >
> > > > I'm happy to have a fair go at trying to put it together and
writting
> > > about
> > > > my results.
> > > >
> > > > But I don't seem to be getting very far and with very little help
> > > available.
> > > >
> > > > I don't seem to be getting any further than th very, very, basics.
> > > >
> > > > I've had a look at the tutorial but I feel they are very basic as
> well.
> > > >
> > > > I've spent 4 weeks looking at CC2 and CCS with very little to show
for
> > it.
> > > >
> > > > Is there anyone out there who can give me some encouragement, hope,
or
> > > > direction?
> > > >
> > > > Thanks for all those who have attempted help me so far.
> > > >
> > > > It just doesn't seem to be working out.
> > > >
> > > > Barry G. Sumpter
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
|
|
|
|
Eddy - IntraManga
|
| Posted: 05/16/2002, 6:08 PM |
|
"inflammatory"? come on , give me a break. I think you are reading
between the lines.
"irritating to a serious coder" yeh that's maybe the problem around here ,
too many "pro´s" are irritated by novices questions or disappointments .
Maybe that is why this newsgroup is just too slow-moving. People are getting
afraid asking questions.
Not everybody is just a book-eater. I hate books and long studying. But I
sure learned a lot by seeing code , trying to understand it , as far as
possible , and than change it to my own needs , nobody just cuts and paste.
I am able to write small programs from scratch in different programming
levels without even reading one page of a book. Everybody has is way to
learn something and that also should be respected. If you like to read tons
of books , go ahead , it does not disturb or irritate me in any way.
My clients know that I am not "The Pro" , but still they trust me. Why ?
Because they know I will always help them in every way I can and whenever I
can. I am always there for them if they need me , without a "I AM A PRO"
label on my back.
If you don't want to share , ok , nobody forces you , don't answer , that's
it. But I do know this newsgroup would go a lot faster if more people did
share something more basic needs. And maybe less "stupid" questions , that
are wasting your time ,would be asked.
So you see , we all have a different point of view , but for me not enough
reason to irritate me , sometimes disappointing , yes.
I try to understand your point , why don't you try the same. If you are a
good programmer , lets say in PHP , that is than also because a group of
people made it available for you , for free. Why are doing all those ´open
source´ groups so well , maybe because everybody benefits , learns , and
improves. Don't you think ?
Thanks again for listening.
Greetings ,
Ed,
"Dave Rexel" <therex_spamenot@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:ac1f2k$rck$1@news.codecharge.com...
> The topic and the original message body of this thread is inflamatory and
> intensely irritating to a serious coder.
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
> quote :
> >>Are there any real ASP developers working with CodeCharge?
>
> >>Or are we all just CodeCharge users copying and pasting ASP script into
> CodeCharge?
>
> >>Yeah, I'm a hack. I don't want to spend hour after hour hacking trial
and
> error routines.
>
> >>I'd like some ASP developers who really know whats going on to
contribute
> to
> this forum.
>
> end quote
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
> ---
>
> First off, it would be very helpful if CC or CCS had a plugin architecture
> for building our own wizards.
>
> - This would make addition of features/widgets easy for the
> developer/advanced user and a nobrainer for the IDE user
>
> Unfortunately our favourite product is not yet at this point and this
leads
> to manual code being written/pasted in leading to
> - difficulty in duplicating special features across pages/sites
> - difficulty in sharing special solutions with others
> - more bug nests (mostly for cut n pasters)
>
> The majority of competent coders must occasionally seek the developers
help
> on where and how to insert special features when the products
documentation
> is so poor in this aspect.
>
> - That the advanced coders do not see the need to bail out newbies is in
my
> opinion due to the excellent and very timely answers from the developers,
> they are really informative, polite and helpful.
>
> I reiterate : developing live dynamic websites on the Internet by copy n
> pasting and little knowledge of the spectrum of protocols is dangerous for
> the owners/operators and users of such websites because it is the
developers
> skill that is the last barrier against malicious visitors.
>
> I would not trust my website/business to a cut n paster, would you?
However
> I do hope that this NG will develop a more helpful and cooperative
userbase,
> its just too slow-moving and sparsely populated at the moment to compare
to
> NOF or DW/UD NGs. Until then :
>
> Go on... study a lot.... it wont hurt you a bit.
>
>
>
> "Eddy - IntraManga" <ed@lamanga.org> wrote in message
>news:abvqca$sb3$1@news.codecharge.com...
> > I agree 100% on this.
> >
> > For myself , a lot of times I am just too afraid to ask a question , and
> > prefer sticking with my problem.
> >
> > - Or the answer you get is too technical , I don't get the picture.
> >
> > - Asking for a piece of code is like asking for a credit card number.
> >
> > - Or you get answers like the previous ones , . buy a good book (If you
> don'
> > t want to help or sharing some code , than don't waste your time hitting
> the
> > reply button , nobody forces you )
> >
> > - If you complain you get flamed.
> >
> > I know there are also a lot of people who really try to help and I know
> also
> > that not everybody has the time to find solutions for others , but if
you
> > have a good piece of code already , is it so hard to share it? Good
things
> > in live are , give a little bit - take a little bit.
> >
> > At the time I bought CC also , having in mind that little knowledge was
> > needed to build applications. This is true with the applications that
> comes
> > with the product , but they are too basic in a lot of ways. I understand
> > also that the CC crew can not write everyone's application and that's
why
> > sharing some extra code would do a lot of good to us - people with a low
> > level of programming. I never bought CC to become a full high level
> > programmer.
> >
> > Nevertheless CC is a good program for a very reasonable price , I can do
a
> > lot of things I could never have done before , but I know for a fact
that
> I
> > could achieve a lot more with some extra help or coding , without to
> become
> > an expert in programming. If I would maybe I wouldn't need CC
> >
> > And if you look around to some other newsgroups , i.e. the NOF group ,
you
> > can see the difference people helping each other and everybody
benefiting
> > from it.
> >
> > This is just my personal point of view , but still glad I have CC
> >
> > Regards to all,
> >
> > Ed
> >
> >
> >
> > "Eladesor" <Eladesor@NOSPAMbtinternet.com> wrote in message
> >news:abv44p$lre$1@news.codecharge.com...
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > I think some of the replies in this post have been a bit OTT, having
> been
> > a
> > > member of this forum from the very early days (even though I don't
post
> a
> > > lot). From day one - the ethos has been helping others out -
regardless
> of
> > > their knowledge level or ability.
> > > Just think about it... if everyone was as knowledgeable as they make
> out -
> > > why are they posting questions here? Surely the intricacies of CC are
> > > nothing to the skilled programmers here... or are they not so skilled
> > hence
> > > their use of CC (but that's another topic)?
> > >
> > > Come one Guys - give him a break - CC is a wonderful product and what
> > > enhances that is the contributing users / moan ;)
> > >
> > > Regards
> > > Eladesor
> > >
> > > "Barry G. Sumpter" <bsumpter@bigpond.net.au> wrote in message
> > >news:abqo53$ssr$1@news.codecharge.com...
> > > > Are there any real ASP developers working with CodeCharge?
> > > >
> > > > Or are we all just CodeCharge users copying and pasting ASP script
> into
> > > > CodeCharge?
> > > >
> > > > Yeah, I'm a hack. I don't want to spend hour after hour hacking
trial
> > and
> > > > error routines.
> > > >
> > > > I'd like some ASP developers who really know whats going on to
> > contribute
> > > to
> > > > this forum.
> > > >
> > > > I'm happy to have a fair go at trying to put it together and
writting
> > > about
> > > > my results.
> > > >
> > > > But I don't seem to be getting very far and with very little help
> > > available.
> > > >
> > > > I don't seem to be getting any further than th very, very, basics.
> > > >
> > > > I've had a look at the tutorial but I feel they are very basic as
> well.
> > > >
> > > > I've spent 4 weeks looking at CC2 and CCS with very little to show
for
> > it.
> > > >
> > > > Is there anyone out there who can give me some encouragement, hope,
or
> > > > direction?
> > > >
> > > > Thanks for all those who have attempted help me so far.
> > > >
> > > > It just doesn't seem to be working out.
> > > >
> > > > Barry G. Sumpter
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
|
|
|
|
Dave Rexel
|
| Posted: 05/17/2002, 12:12 PM |
|
OK I stand corrected about the negativity, its just that I'm in the middle
of cleaning up a very large ASP project that the client originally
contracted out to a group of cut n pasters and while it is lucrative, its
driving me crazy.
I stand by my view that it is dangerous to build business sites without
professional and deep knowledge.
I want to jump in and offer help but like I said the developers do this very
well and their reaction time is pretty quick. There is no thought in my mind
to demean people that want to learn, I have spent thousands of hours
learning, my walls are always covered with printouts and references, and I
do help out with concrete code snippets if I solve something thats worth
sharing. Surely your search turned up a couple of my codesnippets on the CCS
NG.
I do wait a bit to see if the developers answer because I would never dare
to presume knowing more about their product than they do.
Hope this will clear the air a bit.
Happy CodeCharging fellow code-chargers!
"Barry G. Sumpter" <BarrySumpter@menette.com.au> wrote in message
news:ac1jsh$44e$1@news.codecharge.com...
> Hi Dave,
>
> Out of the latest 2500 posts on this specific NG you've posted 5
times -
> 2 of which are aggressive responses to this thread.
>
> You're stiring up alot of negativity for someone who hasn't (in my
> opinion) really contributed to this NG.
>
> If you don't want to help support novices because you think your just
> too good then by all means don't bother.
> Take the next intelligent step, stop bullying, and leave us novices
> alone to sort out how we want
> to approach developing with CodeCharge ourselves.
>
> As stated by other CodeCharge enthusiasts, it takes courage to ask a
> question.
> Potentially, exposing yourself to ridicule.
> Ironically, its this type of ridicule which help us to identify the
> bullies.
>
> I'm happy you consider youself a serious coder.
>
> And I encourage you to contribute in a constructive manner when you
feel
> like it.
> As well as expressing your personal opinions.
>
> I'd ask you to have a thought about how you write your responses and
how
> it might affect others,
> but I catch myself as well reading over my posts and thinking I could
> have said that better of more clearly.
>
> I attempt to read each post with emotions turned off - I call it
> 'deadpan delivery' - just that facts man.
>
> I look forward to your contructive contibutions in the future.
>
> Barry G. Sumpter
>
> P.S. Thanks to all those who replied with advice and encouragment
> publically and privately.
> All the best to you all.
>
>
> "Dave Rexel" <therex_spamenot@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>news:ac1f2k$rck$1@news.codecharge.com...
> > The topic and the original message body of this thread is inflamatory
and
> > intensely irritating to a serious coder.
> >
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> --
> > quote :
> > >>Are there any real ASP developers working with CodeCharge?
> >
> > >>Or are we all just CodeCharge users copying and pasting ASP script
into
> > CodeCharge?
> >
> > >>Yeah, I'm a hack. I don't want to spend hour after hour hacking trial
> and
> > error routines.
> >
> > >>I'd like some ASP developers who really know whats going on to
> contribute
> > to
> > this forum.
> >
> > end quote
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> --
> > ---
> >
> > First off, it would be very helpful if CC or CCS had a plugin
architecture
> > for building our own wizards.
> >
> > - This would make addition of features/widgets easy for the
> > developer/advanced user and a nobrainer for the IDE user
> >
> > Unfortunately our favourite product is not yet at this point and this
> leads
> > to manual code being written/pasted in leading to
> > - difficulty in duplicating special features across pages/sites
> > - difficulty in sharing special solutions with others
> > - more bug nests (mostly for cut n pasters)
> >
> > The majority of competent coders must occasionally seek the developers
> help
> > on where and how to insert special features when the products
> documentation
> > is so poor in this aspect.
> >
> > - That the advanced coders do not see the need to bail out newbies is in
> my
> > opinion due to the excellent and very timely answers from the
developers,
> > they are really informative, polite and helpful.
> >
> > I reiterate : developing live dynamic websites on the Internet by copy n
> > pasting and little knowledge of the spectrum of protocols is dangerous
for
> > the owners/operators and users of such websites because it is the
> developers
> > skill that is the last barrier against malicious visitors.
> >
> > I would not trust my website/business to a cut n paster, would you?
> However
> > I do hope that this NG will develop a more helpful and cooperative
> userbase,
> > its just too slow-moving and sparsely populated at the moment to compare
> to
> > NOF or DW/UD NGs. Until then :
> >
> > Go on... study a lot.... it wont hurt you a bit.
> >
> >
> >
> > "Eddy - IntraManga" <ed@lamanga.org> wrote in message
> >news:abvqca$sb3$1@news.codecharge.com...
> > > I agree 100% on this.
> > >
> > > For myself , a lot of times I am just too afraid to ask a question ,
and
> > > prefer sticking with my problem.
> > >
> > > - Or the answer you get is too technical , I don't get the picture.
> > >
> > > - Asking for a piece of code is like asking for a credit card number.
> > >
> > > - Or you get answers like the previous ones , . buy a good book (If
you
> > don'
> > > t want to help or sharing some code , than don't waste your time
hitting
> > the
> > > reply button , nobody forces you )
> > >
> > > - If you complain you get flamed.
> > >
> > > I know there are also a lot of people who really try to help and I
know
> > also
> > > that not everybody has the time to find solutions for others , but if
> you
> > > have a good piece of code already , is it so hard to share it? Good
> things
> > > in live are , give a little bit - take a little bit.
> > >
> > > At the time I bought CC also , having in mind that little knowledge
was
> > > needed to build applications. This is true with the applications that
> > comes
> > > with the product , but they are too basic in a lot of ways. I
understand
> > > also that the CC crew can not write everyone's application and that's
> why
> > > sharing some extra code would do a lot of good to us - people with a
low
> > > level of programming. I never bought CC to become a full high level
> > > programmer.
> > >
> > > Nevertheless CC is a good program for a very reasonable price , I can
do
> a
> > > lot of things I could never have done before , but I know for a fact
> that
> > I
> > > could achieve a lot more with some extra help or coding , without to
> > become
> > > an expert in programming. If I would maybe I wouldn't need CC
> > >
> > > And if you look around to some other newsgroups , i.e. the NOF group ,
> you
> > > can see the difference people helping each other and everybody
> benefiting
> > > from it.
> > >
> > > This is just my personal point of view , but still glad I have CC
> > >
> > > Regards to all,
> > >
> > > Ed
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > "Eladesor" <Eladesor@NOSPAMbtinternet.com> wrote in message
> > >news:abv44p$lre$1@news.codecharge.com...
> > > > Hi,
> > > >
> > > > I think some of the replies in this post have been a bit OTT, having
> > been
> > > a
> > > > member of this forum from the very early days (even though I don't
> post
> > a
> > > > lot). From day one - the ethos has been helping others out -
> regardless
> > of
> > > > their knowledge level or ability.
> > > > Just think about it... if everyone was as knowledgeable as they make
> > out -
> > > > why are they posting questions here? Surely the intricacies of CC
are
> > > > nothing to the skilled programmers here... or are they not so
skilled
> > > hence
> > > > their use of CC (but that's another topic)?
> > > >
> > > > Come one Guys - give him a break - CC is a wonderful product and
what
> > > > enhances that is the contributing users / moan ;)
> > > >
> > > > Regards
> > > > Eladesor
> > > >
> > > > "Barry G. Sumpter" <bsumpter@bigpond.net.au> wrote in message
> > > >news:abqo53$ssr$1@news.codecharge.com...
> > > > > Are there any real ASP developers working with CodeCharge?
> > > > >
> > > > > Or are we all just CodeCharge users copying and pasting ASP script
> > into
> > > > > CodeCharge?
> > > > >
> > > > > Yeah, I'm a hack. I don't want to spend hour after hour hacking
> trial
> > > and
> > > > > error routines.
> > > > >
> > > > > I'd like some ASP developers who really know whats going on to
> > > contribute
> > > > to
> > > > > this forum.
> > > > >
> > > > > I'm happy to have a fair go at trying to put it together and
> writting
> > > > about
> > > > > my results.
> > > > >
> > > > > But I don't seem to be getting very far and with very little help
> > > > available.
> > > > >
> > > > > I don't seem to be getting any further than th very, very, basics.
> > > > >
> > > > > I've had a look at the tutorial but I feel they are very basic as
> > well.
> > > > >
> > > > > I've spent 4 weeks looking at CC2 and CCS with very little to show
> for
> > > it.
> > > > >
> > > > > Is there anyone out there who can give me some encouragement,
hope,
> or
> > > > > direction?
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks for all those who have attempted help me so far.
> > > > >
> > > > > It just doesn't seem to be working out.
> > > > >
> > > > > Barry G. Sumpter
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
|
|
|
|
nonzero
|
| Posted: 05/21/2002, 8:35 PM |
|
I just had $0.02 worth about this thread and some words of encouragement for
Barry. This NG is not a zero sum game. It doesn't seem to be
bandwidth-limited. In other words, one user's questions do not reduce the
value of the NG to all users. On the contrary, the value of the NG increases
with the number of questions asked, and answered. A particular thread, or a
great many of them, may be of no interest to many users. But they will
likely be of interest to some users. A less experienced cc user's interests
will differ from an experienced cc user's. But I believe there is plenty of
"room" for both sorts of threads.
The cc and ccs frameworks are not always obvious. They enforce the authors'
conversion of their abstraction of the flow of control of a web app into a
variety of languages. The level of abstraction to enable this flexibility
comes at a price - for a simple web app in a given language the generated
code is more complex than that which might be generated by a less flexible
tool, or that which might be written manually. I've written way too much
code in C++, PHP, ASP and Java for years. But that doesn't mean I can guess
how another coder's framework is implemented without studying it and without
a desire to enlist the aid of others with more experience in the framework.
I can study the generated code, but I can't know, a priori, exactly what how
my inputs in the IDE will be implemented in the generated code. That's a
big part of the learning process. Whenever possible, it's better to work
within the framework rather than to start hacking the generated code. In
this way the site can be more easily modified and regenerated in the future.
A programmer's intuition and instincts improve with experience, so that the
coder develops a better sense, over time, as to how a particular framework
is organized. This enables the coder to make more accurate "guesses" as to
how something is or should be implemented . Over time these "guesses" become
less trial and error, and more often the exact solution that is needed.
Sometimes you have to hack the generated code, but as you learn, you find
more ways to work within the framework and IDE to achieve the desired
result.
Barry will find, as we all do, that the learning curve can be particularly
steep at the beginning (sometimes it seems like a step function) but the
rewards do kick in when you have finally clawed your way onto the flat part
of the curve. It is then that you can start to "coast" and get a great deal
done with a small amount of effort. CC is that way. Like any similar tool,
it lets you create a generic app, without all the features you might need,
very easily. The tweaks and mods required to transform the generic generated
app into the customized app that you need are a little harder. But once you
get used to working with it, the tool can provide a huge productivity boost.
I have criticism for no one on this forum. I respect and appreciate the
thoughtful and respectful contributions of all the posters. I sometimes read
posts that address an issue for which I have no questions and find that
different perspectives yield new insight -- and I learn something.
I ran on a bit in my discourse, but I felt compelled to encourage everyone
to ask questions when they are stuck. I also felt compelled to express my
appreciation for an exceedingly useful resource - this excellent news group
concerning an excellent product. A newsgroup is only as good as its
participants and I have to say that we're fortunate to have, without
exception, a great crowd here.
"Barry G. Sumpter" <bsumpter@bigpond.net.au> wrote in message
news:abqo53$ssr$1@news.codecharge.com...
> Are there any real ASP developers working with CodeCharge?
>
> Or are we all just CodeCharge users copying and pasting ASP script into
> CodeCharge?
>
> Yeah, I'm a hack. I don't want to spend hour after hour hacking trial and
> error routines.
>
> I'd like some ASP developers who really know whats going on to contribute
to
> this forum.
>
> I'm happy to have a fair go at trying to put it together and writting
about
> my results.
>
> But I don't seem to be getting very far and with very little help
available.
>
> I don't seem to be getting any further than th very, very, basics.
>
> I've had a look at the tutorial but I feel they are very basic as well.
>
> I've spent 4 weeks looking at CC2 and CCS with very little to show for it.
>
> Is there anyone out there who can give me some encouragement, hope, or
> direction?
>
> Thanks for all those who have attempted help me so far.
>
> It just doesn't seem to be working out.
>
> Barry G. Sumpter
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
|
|
|
|
Stan Jacox
|
| Posted: 05/21/2002, 9:05 PM |
|
I know this thread is getting a little old but it retains a little life in
it.
I think those who defended the asking of questions and decrying the
suggestions to read the books are missing the point of the original post.
It was not about help with CC, of which this community is the best resource,
it was about ASP. This is not the best place for that. A common language
is needed to communicate ideas and the books can supply the basics needed to
understand ASP terms and standard practices. Once there is a common basis
for communications, the CC based questions, answers and tips should be and
are very welcome here. By sharing the first stumbling confusion regarding
CC1.01, until now when there are tutorials and plenty of helpful examples to
study, this list has been very useful. Those of us who recommended Barry
start with hitting the books were citing a practical suggestion as to how
the most can be gotten out of this CC list.
Barry has VB experience, none us expected him to start with the rank
beginnings of programming texts, but to study to learn the terms and
practices of the new-to-him scripting language. Sounds simple to me.
All you guys are probably better programmers than I am so I would expect to
study the vocabulary and techniques of a language before posing questions
that made sense, was not re-inventing the wheel and resulted in answers I
could understand.
Stan
Highly Advanced Rank Beginner
"nonzero" <nonzero@noreply.com> wrote in message
news:acf3mi$kkm$1@news.codecharge.com...
> I just had $0.02 worth about this thread and some words of encouragement
for
> Barry. This NG is not a zero sum game. It doesn't seem to be
> bandwidth-limited. In other words, one user's questions do not reduce the
> value of the NG to all users. On the contrary, the value of the NG
increases
> with the number of questions asked, and answered. A particular thread, or
a
> great many of them, may be of no interest to many users. But they will
> likely be of interest to some users. A less experienced cc user's
interests
> will differ from an experienced cc user's. But I believe there is plenty
of
> "room" for both sorts of threads.
>
> The cc and ccs frameworks are not always obvious. They enforce the
authors'
> conversion of their abstraction of the flow of control of a web app into a
> variety of languages. The level of abstraction to enable this flexibility
> comes at a price - for a simple web app in a given language the generated
> code is more complex than that which might be generated by a less flexible
> tool, or that which might be written manually. I've written way too much
> code in C++, PHP, ASP and Java for years. But that doesn't mean I can
guess
> how another coder's framework is implemented without studying it and
without
> a desire to enlist the aid of others with more experience in the
framework.
> I can study the generated code, but I can't know, a priori, exactly what
how
> my inputs in the IDE will be implemented in the generated code. That's a
> big part of the learning process. Whenever possible, it's better to work
> within the framework rather than to start hacking the generated code. In
> this way the site can be more easily modified and regenerated in the
future.
> A programmer's intuition and instincts improve with experience, so that
the
> coder develops a better sense, over time, as to how a particular framework
> is organized. This enables the coder to make more accurate "guesses" as to
> how something is or should be implemented . Over time these "guesses"
become
> less trial and error, and more often the exact solution that is needed.
> Sometimes you have to hack the generated code, but as you learn, you find
> more ways to work within the framework and IDE to achieve the desired
> result.
>
> Barry will find, as we all do, that the learning curve can be particularly
> steep at the beginning (sometimes it seems like a step function) but the
> rewards do kick in when you have finally clawed your way onto the flat
part
> of the curve. It is then that you can start to "coast" and get a great
deal
> done with a small amount of effort. CC is that way. Like any similar tool,
> it lets you create a generic app, without all the features you might need,
> very easily. The tweaks and mods required to transform the generic
generated
> app into the customized app that you need are a little harder. But once
you
> get used to working with it, the tool can provide a huge productivity
boost.
>
> I have criticism for no one on this forum. I respect and appreciate the
> thoughtful and respectful contributions of all the posters. I sometimes
read
> posts that address an issue for which I have no questions and find that
> different perspectives yield new insight -- and I learn something.
>
> I ran on a bit in my discourse, but I felt compelled to encourage everyone
> to ask questions when they are stuck. I also felt compelled to express my
> appreciation for an exceedingly useful resource - this excellent news
group
> concerning an excellent product. A newsgroup is only as good as its
> participants and I have to say that we're fortunate to have, without
> exception, a great crowd here.
>
>
|
|
|
|
|
