Waspman
Posts: 948
|
| Posted: 10/11/2004, 12:45 AM |
|
Hi all,
After almost 4 years of building applications / sites with CC & CCS I think, I’m having a crisis of confidence.
Like most people who use RAD’s I am concerned with the end product, the design and the ultimate benefits. I’m not really interested in how it does it.
However, I’ve just had a report from my host (Hostway) who indicate that maybe I should understand more about how ASP (my chosen language) and data connections work. Apparently I use too many queries on a page, the DB is too big, too many unused objects and connections are not being closed.
I think CCS is brilliant! Whether it’s a site for used vehicles or an online management tool, I can do it with CCS. I’ve just built an online database management and marketing tool, but now I’m questioning everything.
Anybody any thoughts, should I be worried, should I go back to basics and learn more about ASP rather than relying on CCS?
Many thanx
_________________
http://www.waspmedia.co.uk |
 |
 |
peterr
Posts: 5971
|
| Posted: 10/11/2004, 4:33 AM |
|
The database size doesn't depend on the use of CCS, thus it will not get smaller if you write ASP programs differently. However, a wrong database design could result in database size larger than needed. It is also not recommended to use MS Access for larger systems, again not depending on CCS.
As for the other issues, I would ask Hostway for specifics. CCS closes unused connections and objects but if Hostway claims otherwise please ask them for specific examples. I could also say that if Hostway tells you that DB is too big then it's a good indication that they may not be able to handle any decent applications, but I cannot confirm this without knowing more facts, including the hosting plan and the database that you are using.
Just my 2 cents.
_________________
Peter R.
YesSoftware Forums Moderator
For product support please visit http://support.yessoftware.com |
|
|
|
peterr
Posts: 5971
|
| Posted: 10/11/2004, 4:52 AM |
|
Not to point at Hostway as the reason for your possible problems, but out of curiosity I did little research and it seems obvious that their "support strategy" is to avoid problems and blame others:
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&selm=d8f8f49c...ting.google.com
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&selm=00ba01c3...1280a%40phx.gbl
My advice to you would be to tell them that you wrote your ASP programs manually - then see what they say. If you tell them that you used any tool you're just giving them the ammunition to avoid responsibility and say that the tool is the problem. Let them provide you with specific details of any problem that they point out.
_________________
Peter R.
YesSoftware Forums Moderator
For product support please visit http://support.yessoftware.com |
|
|
|
Waspman
Posts: 948
|
| Posted: 10/11/2004, 5:38 AM |
|
Thanx Peter,
The database dose have a lot of data, and I have been considering upsizing for sometime. I will also be building the site in CCS, currently it CC2.
We have a fully managed dedicated server with Hostway.
I had asimilar problem a year ago and the code was checked by you guys. When I went back to hostway they said all they could do was reset the server more often. Which they did and everything was okay untill now.
The did say that the default page had 12 queries, which is too many when working with a 23meg Access db. This will cause memory leaks and db failure. They also said that the common file wasn't closing connections and there were unused objects?
One thing that doesnt add up is that the server was supposed to be reset every 24 hours. But the day it crashed the traffic was low. The highest number of sessions was 2 days before, 250. I've asked if the leak was cumulative.
One thing I thought of was to stress test the site on a local server and see what happens? I've tried a demo of WAPT, what do you think, would this be of any advantage?
Many thanx... Tony
_________________
http://www.waspmedia.co.uk |
|
|
|
peterr
Posts: 5971
|
| Posted: 10/11/2004, 7:45 AM |
|
I see now. Looks like you posted your message in a wrong forum and I was referring to CodeCharge Studio. I will try to move your post later, but would appreciate posting in the right forum.
I also believe that CC also shouldn't have these problems, though I just don't know it as well personally. My collegues in the support could address this topic.
Back to CC and your issues: we've been using for years the CodeCharge-generated support system with ASP & MS Access, thus I'm sure we would fix problems that we would experience ourselves.
I believe that ASP closes connections automatically after the script (page) finishes running.
Unused objects could mean anything. I have no idea what this means here.
12 queries looks like many. I'm not sure what you have on your page, thus this may be justified depending on the number of forms and elements on the page. However, most databases would handle 12 read queries quite well, maybe except MS Access...
It looks like it may be the time for you to start thinking about upgrading to a more scalable multi-user database, like MS SQL, or even MySQL.
In my opinion you're too confident in MS Access  I'd even say that it may not make sense to use WAPT or other application testing tools with MS Access because your results may depend 80-90% on MS Access and 10-20% on your application code. It may make more sense to upgrade your database first, then test the application.
_________________
Peter R.
YesSoftware Forums Moderator
For product support please visit http://support.yessoftware.com |
|
|
|
Tony
|
| Posted: 10/11/2004, 8:09 AM |
|
Sorry,
I use CCS all the time now, it's just this one app/site that's left over.
Your right, I do expect Access to perform, but I always intended to build it in Access then upsize?
Anyway thanx for all you help.
Tony
|
|
|
|
Benjamin Krajmalnik
|
| Posted: 10/15/2004, 3:33 PM |
|
I would take what many of these "managed hosted servers" say with a grain of
salt.
I have an application which is a front end to our CRM package which is
accessing a database which is close to 250Mb, which has over 200 tables,
without any problems.
The backend is SQL Server 2000. The database gets pounded simultaneoulsy by
our web users and our internal staff, as well as a service which I wrote
which provides back office automation and is constantly triggering
processes.
The application is written in ASP, with slight modifications of some of the
functions to allow us to deploy easier (our product is also resold).
The ASP files are encoded, I have modified the search capabilities to allow
me to perform exact match searches, and I can query with our knowledgebase
about 15000 records, searching for matches in 8 different firleds, in less
than 3 seconds.
The application is accessing the data from our webserver into our LAN via
VPN, which affects peformance slightly.
And it flies and we have no problems at all.
IF you have memory leaks, they are not caused by CodeCharge. Are you sure
that they are running the latest MDAC on the server? AS I mentioned, many
of the hosting provides have no clue what they are talking about. More than
likely that server is not properly configured and not properly patched. Our
webserver has been running for over 1 year without a reboot, and in addition
to ASP runs .Net, CF, PHP and Perl.
|
|
|
|
marcwolf
Posts: 361
|
| Posted: 10/19/2004, 7:08 PM |
|
MS-Access is not realy the best database for a large website with a lot of hits.
A more cost effective solution could be MY-SQL. The SQL used in both is pretty similar and with CodeChage changing from one to the other should be fairly simple.
We use My-SQL on some pretty intensive sites where the customer is running an Enterprize wide application writting in CCS. Its performs extremely well with an excellent reponse turn-around.
Although SQL Server can provide an easier upgrade path with its wizards - there is the licensing issues and that can be very expensive
Take Care
Dave
_________________
' Coding Coding Coding
Keep Those Keyboards Coding.
Raw Code!!!!!!!
|
|
|
|
Benjamin Krajmalnik
|
| Posted: 10/26/2004, 9:48 AM |
|
Absolutely.
MySQL is great. However, there are alos licensing issues with it if your un
versions 4.x. It is technically no longer a free product.
An easy migration path could also be using MSDE instead of a full blown SQL
server.
Other options, which are free, are PostgreSQL, Firebird.
|
|
|
|
darren166
Posts: 24
|
| Posted: 11/01/2004, 1:26 AM |
|
Look out for Sql Server 2005 Express coming next year from Microsoft as well. It is a free version of SQL Server with all the standard power and functionality including unlimited connections but with some restrictions such as no clustering, max database size of 4gb. Definitely the one to choose if you were intending to use Access or were borderline Access / Sql Server.
Darren.
_________________
---
a. w. d. - c o n s u l t i n g
Midnight Oil Consumers. |
|
|
|
mark0
|
| Posted: 11/08/2004, 11:09 PM |
|
Quote Benjamin Krajmalnik:
Our
webserver has been running for over 1 year without a reboot, and in addition
to ASP runs .Net, CF, PHP and Perl.
How is that possible without installing updates 
|
|
|
|
|
