alxz
|
| Posted: 12/11/2004, 1:12 AM |
|
Okay, a noob one. What the heck is Knowledge Base - CCS project 1.0 server for 100 bucks per user? Searching everywhere and can't find what's this for.
|
|
|
 |
mrachow
Posts: 509
|
| Posted: 12/11/2004, 4:38 AM |
|
YesSoftware is offering some (one, two, or three?) more comprehensive CCS projects not as freely available examples but on special request from support.
When used in a commercial way you have to pay for using them.
Not knowing about the actual rates.
_________________
Best regards,
Michael |
 |
|
alxz
|
| Posted: 12/11/2004, 5:10 AM |
|
ic
Thanks, Mike.
|
|
|
|
peterr
Posts: 5971
|
| Posted: 12/11/2004, 10:41 AM |
|
It is the Knowledge Base application that is being used here: http://support.yessoftware.com/kb_search.asp
It can be obtained in CCS format by CCS users.
_________________
Peter R.
YesSoftware Forums Moderator
For product support please visit http://support.yessoftware.com |
|
|
|
alxz
|
| Posted: 12/11/2004, 1:07 PM |
|
Thanks Peter.
Hmm, but from what I understand from the license wording, one need to buy a license for each server where this prj gets in some form installed, despite of it's integrated in our own products or heavily modified etc. Not an exciting alternative for an inherently source-code product. Think would be great and more natural to have a developer license royalty-free option instead.
Also for the power and a good set of targeted solutions CCS is offering at a fixed price, I don't really see a market where such kind of per-server products really fit from a developer perspective. Am I wrong?
Alex
|
|
|
|
peterr
Posts: 5971
|
| Posted: 12/11/2004, 4:40 PM |
|
Alex,
The developer license is free if you like to use it for learning how to create your own, other types of applications.
Only if you want to use it as a base to create similar products then youd' need to purchase the server license(s). In this sense this is not a product for developers, but an end product that can be installed and used by everyone. Just like various online stores, portals and commerce systems that are sold out there, sometimes with and other times without the source code.
Of course we also could sell this application without the source code and do not offer development license, however we'd like to give everyone an opportunity to see how it was created. Don't you like that?
_________________
Peter R.
YesSoftware Forums Moderator
For product support please visit http://support.yessoftware.com |
|
|
|
alxz
|
| Posted: 12/12/2004, 12:07 AM |
|
Surely I like the free dev license option and the chance to learn the inner-goings and I'm grateful with that, but also trying to think as a developer and potential license holder from a business perspective. Having the source code and the free dev license, the notion of "other types of applications" and "similar products" is a rather fuzzy one to me here. One could toy a bit with the interface and call it FAQ instead of KB or heavily modify and integrate it as a subset of their own CMS. In both cases we could argue if we are or not inline with the license agreement.
Other source-code products build around the notion of "not competing products" (not selling the same or almost the same KB as if our own) and "substancial changes of the source required" to qualify for a royalty-free dev license. Think the later wording is a bit clearer when it comes to derivatives and real-world applications.
Quote peterr:
Alex,
The developer license is free if you like to use it for learning how to create your own, other types of applications.
Only if you want to use it as a base to create similar products then youd' need to purchase the server license(s). In this sense this is not a product for developers, but an end product that can be installed and used by everyone. Just like various online stores, portals and commerce systems that are sold out there, sometimes with and other times without the source code.
Of course we also could sell this application without the source code and do not offer development license, however we'd like to give everyone an opportunity to see how it was created. Don't you like that?
|
|
|
|
Greg
|
| Posted: 12/12/2004, 4:20 AM |
|
I posted this yesterday and today it is GONE ??? 
here again.....
Peter,
How on earth do we get hold of a copy?
There seems to be s glitch in your online store. I have selectef the developer
Licence, filled in all the details and when submitted get an error:
Online Store
Unfortunately we could not process your transaction due to the reason stated
below:
Reason: Invalid amount
Reason code: 4
Must be due to the ZERO value of the order, but how do I now download it ?
RGDS
Greg
PS, Yes, registerd user and loving it. 
|
|
|
|
alxz
|
| Posted: 12/12/2004, 4:27 AM |
|
Greg, saw your post too but after posting my reply with the "quote" option it was gone. Probably a bug?
|
|
|
|
Greg
|
| Posted: 12/12/2004, 4:35 AM |
|
Thank goodness, I was thinking it is me getting old 
Have you tried "purchasing" it with the zero value?
|
|
|
|
Georg
|
| Posted: 12/12/2004, 4:43 AM |
|
Interesting..
I think it is a brilliant idea to let us look at and study the code as designed by its designers. Should clear up a whole bunch of questions, but sooner or later one "borrows" an idea or a way something is done or even a page...
Is that then an infringement?
Like to see what Peter says.
Thouchy issue... Hmmm
|
|
|
|
peterr
Posts: 5971
|
| Posted: 12/12/2004, 12:37 PM |
|
Greg,
You can obtain the Knowledge Base example as CCS project at http://www.codecharge.com/ccsprojects/indexkb.php
(this is available to registered CodeCharge Studio users)
Alex can purchase KB example together with CCS.
Sorry I cannot comment on legal issues. However I just read the license and to me it looks clear about "development of non-related products", and "do not combine the Software with any other software and do not create derivative works of the Software". I guess an official statement in such situations is "please consult an attorney", however I understand that this could be a stretch in most cases. Therefore another option is not to obtain that example since it is not very unusual/special. If you need to create own knowlegde base (an application or a page) then you can still use the other examples, documentation, forums, support, Google. Plus in practice you need to be able to create an application by yourself if you want to claim that it is yours and then distribute or sell it. Otherwise anyone could be copying pieces of other software and claiming that they created it, even though they couldn't. That's where the server license comes in, which you can buy when you're unale to create such application yourself.
_________________
Peter R.
YesSoftware Forums Moderator
For product support please visit http://support.yessoftware.com |
|
|
|
alxz
|
| Posted: 12/13/2004, 12:13 AM |
|
Think this thread has become a mixture of different views and that could lead to some missunderstandings.
- First, there are 2 set of licences published regarding this KB. One is the free for learning purposes and the another one is not, for the business cases. The 2nd one (commercial) allows derivatives, but require to buy a license for each server where in theory even the smallest residual piece of the KB could still exist in the devs code. Things are rather clear explained, but the existence of only these types of licensing, w/o a royalty-free option for business purposes, is IMO messy as "learning" and "derivatives" could get very fuzzy, especially in a RAD product sharing so much common code.
Quote :in practice you need to be able to create an application by yourself if you want to claim that it is yours and then distribute or sell it. Otherwise anyone could be copying pieces of other software and claiming that they created it, even though they couldn't.
That's true only in theory. Discovering hot water again and again is a waste of time (isn't CCS that for?). Here's where the royalty-free license comes in. Have seen yet how CCS also includes pieces of code from other ppl (e.g. upload.asp). The point of course is not stealing the code, but have the option to license it for our purposes and for the right price. I'm pretty certain that upload compo is not licensed on a "server basis". Imagine a bunch of such modules in a complex appl how's is going it to obstruct its licensing model and revenue stream. Or in the case of CCS, how's going it to be delegated to other ppl building stuff using it.
And as a last note, personally I've no problems doing my own KB or anything else, with or w/o CCS. Simply trying to give a kind of contribution to this community, to the future dev of this looking great product and for its nacient 3rd party extensions market, making a point that still think is worth mentioning.
Alex
|
|
|
|
peterr
Posts: 5971
|
| Posted: 12/13/2004, 12:42 AM |
|
Thanks Alex for your comments. I got your point, which looks quite good.
I think that this product evolved somehow in reverse, from an internal application, to an idea of offering the generated source code, finally to offering CCS project (since many users would ask for it anyway). Thus it's possible that it will evolve further to fit even more into CCS as a royalty-free "module" for use by CCS developers in their projects.
It's good to have such feedback and I will forward this info onto others at YesSoftware (not promising anything).
_________________
Peter R.
YesSoftware Forums Moderator
For product support please visit http://support.yessoftware.com |
|
|
|
|
