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 Tableless design

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mile

Posts: 5
Posted: 03/06/2006, 7:28 AM

Is that to much to ask?

Tables are almost deprecated... CSS3 is aproaching fast... If only there was a way to convert the beutiful CCS styles into tableless designs...

Thank you.
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peterr


Posts: 5971
Posted: 03/06/2006, 10:55 AM

Hi,
What do you mean? You can always use tableless design for your page layout.
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mile

Posts: 5
Posted: 03/07/2006, 12:25 AM

Hi again.

Sorry for not being concise :)

Here is a piece of code CCS generates:
  
      <!-- BEGIN Grid priorities_user_events -->  
      <table cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0">  
        <tr>  
          <td valign="top">  
            <table class="Grid" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0">  
              <tr class="Caption">  
                <th>  
                <!-- BEGIN Sorter Sorter_user_event_title --><a href="{Sort_URL}">Title</a>   
                <!-- BEGIN Asc_On --><img src="../Styles/SandBeach/Images/Asc.gif" border="0"><!-- END Asc_On -->  
                <!-- BEGIN Desc_On --><img src="../Styles/SandBeach/Images/Desc.gif" border="0"><!-- END Desc_On --><!-- END Sorter Sorter_user_event_title --></th>  
              </tr>  
   
              <!-- BEGIN Row -->  
              <tr class="Row">  
                <td>{user_event_title} </td>   
                <td>{priority_name} </td>   
                <td>{user_event_date} </td>   
                <td>{user_event_time} </td>   
                <td>{user_event_desc} </td>  
              </tr>  
              <!-- END Row -->  
              <tr class="Footer">  
                <td colspan="5">  
                  <!-- BEGIN Navigator Navigator -->  
                  <!-- BEGIN First_On --><a href="{First_URL}">|<</a> <!-- END First_On -->  
                  <!-- BEGIN First_Off -->|< <!-- END First_Off -->  
                  <!-- BEGIN Prev_On --><a href="{Prev_URL}"><<</a> <!-- END Prev_On -->  
                  <!-- BEGIN Prev_Off --><< <!-- END Prev_Off --> {Page_Number}  
                   {Total_Pages}    
                  <!-- BEGIN Next_On --><a href="{Next_URL}">>></a> <!-- END Next_On -->  
                  <!-- BEGIN Next_Off -->>> <!-- END Next_Off -->  
                  <!-- BEGIN Last_On --><a href="{Last_URL}">>|</a> <!-- END Last_On -->  
                  <!-- BEGIN Last_Off -->>| <!-- END Last_Off --><!-- END Navigator Navigator --></td>  
              </tr>  
            </table>  
          </td>  
        </tr>  
      </table>  
      <!-- END Grid priorities_user_events -->  

In a tableless design, that piece would be equivalent to something like:
  
      <!-- BEGIN Grid priorities_user_events -->  
      <div class="grid">  
                <p class="header"><!-- BEGIN Sorter Sorter_user_event_title --><a href="{Sort_URL}">Title</a>   
                <!-- BEGIN Asc_On --><img src="../Styles/SandBeach/Images/Asc.gif" border="0"><!-- END Asc_On -->  
                <!-- BEGIN Desc_On --><img src="../Styles/SandBeach/Images/Desc.gif" border="0"><!-- END Desc_On --><!-- END Sorter Sorter_user_event_title -->  
		</p>  
   
               <!-- BEGIN Row -->  
	       <div class="Row">  
                <p>{user_event_title}</p>  
                <p>{priority_name}</p>  
                <p>{user_event_date}</p>  
                <p>{user_event_time}</p>  
                <p>{user_event_desc}</p>  
              </div>  
              <!-- END Row -->  
              <div class="Footer">  
                <p class="Navigator">  
                  <!-- BEGIN Navigator Navigator -->  
                  <!-- BEGIN First_On --><a href="{First_URL}">|<</a> <!-- END First_On -->  
                  <!-- BEGIN First_Off -->|< <!-- END First_Off -->  
                  <!-- BEGIN Prev_On --><a href="{Prev_URL}"><<</a> <!-- END Prev_On -->  
                  <!-- BEGIN Prev_Off --><< <!-- END Prev_Off --> {Page_Number}  
                   {Total_Pages}    
                  <!-- BEGIN Next_On --><a href="{Next_URL}">>></a> <!-- END Next_On -->  
                  <!-- BEGIN Next_Off -->>> <!-- END Next_Off -->  
                  <!-- BEGIN Last_On --><a href="{Last_URL}">>|</a> <!-- END Last_On -->  
                  <!-- BEGIN Last_Off -->>| <!-- END Last_Off --><!-- END Navigator Navigator --></p>  
              </div>  
      </div>	  
      <!-- END Grid priorities_user_events -->  

That is, in my humble opinion, tableless design.
It is not very difficult to implement, but the advantages would be huge.

Thanks a lot.
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peterr


Posts: 5971
Posted: 03/07/2006, 2:18 AM

You cannot exactly use tableless design to display tables (grids). This is specifically what tables are for and there is no reason to emulate tables without using tables.
However, tableless design can be used for controlling page layout so that you can avoid using tables for defining page layout. There are many articles about defining page layout without tables and you can use such methodology within CCS.
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roeya


Posts: 181
Posted: 03/09/2006, 1:35 AM

peterr is right

Grids should use tables - tables are for tabular information.

However many times I use grid to generate infomrations for lists or to generate Javascript arrays

It would be helpful to include more options in the generation of grid:
not just tabular but also
ordered list,
unordered list
and just plain without tags

I now I can erase the extra tags after I generate the grid but it is annoying
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alejo
Posted: 03/20/2006, 9:34 AM

hola estoy buscando un manual de php para trabajar paginas con la estructura que aparece arriba..
gracias a quien pueda aydarme
GMerriment

Posts: 76
Posted: 04/07/2006, 10:19 AM

From a webdesign point of view, just because you don't *have* to use tables doesn't mean you *shouldn't* use tables.

The phrase "deprecated" implies obsolescence, or uselessness. They take features out of programming languages because they are "deprecated". They only do this if they learn through the course of development that the feature is no longer needed or functional.

Tables are still highly useful, even for layout purposes. Their primary winning feature at the moment is that tables display uniformly cross-browser. CSS, however, is in a state of constant development and as such browsers tend not to support it as well. Sure it works, but there are glitches. CSS3 will probably be supported by IE 7, maybe 6, and probably not 5 or earlier. Firefox probably, though not 1.5 or earlier.

The point is that "new" is not always better. Yes Software made a good call in their use of tables. They're straightforward and easy to generate and modify.
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glerma

Posts: 56
Posted: 05/04/2006, 4:48 PM

I'm curious what the advantages are of using CSS vs. Tables? Is it speed? Or is it just ease of design?
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WKempees
Posted: 05/05/2006, 2:57 AM

.. personal choice
.. the market
.. greater flexibility
but in my personal opinion not ease of use.

"glerma" <glerma@forum.codecharge> schreef in bericht
news:22445a92bacc2ee@news.codecharge.com...
> I'm curious what the advantages are of using CSS vs. Tables? Is it speed?
> Or is
> it just ease of design?
> ---------------------------------------
> Sent from YesSoftware forum
> http://forums.codecharge.com/
>

wizy

Posts: 40
Posted: 06/02/2006, 6:06 PM

Quote glerma:
I'm curious what the advantages are of using CSS vs. Tables? Is it speed? Or is it just ease of design?


css is great for displaying layout.

Tables were ONLY meant for displaying gridded information. Tabulature data and so forth. It was never meant to be used as a way to organize your layouit or design of your site.

CSS is wholy a better system of design and control for a website.
Tables with CSS helps with those keeping tabulature records and information.

What CC(S) does is creates gridded infromation, so tables are needed (and in a good way). But you can design the look and feel of your website around these tables.

CSS is not difficult to use or implement. You can learn CSS as quickly as you learn html.
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headhunter


Posts: 130
Posted: 06/04/2006, 12:44 AM

I agree with wizy,

tables should be used for grids. The flexibility of using css reaches far more than tables.

Example, my site without tables:
http://trinityhome.org/Home/index.php?wpid=2&front_id=1

Search in source for "table", no tables there ;)

Positioning of objects is far more simple and flexible with css than with tables.
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