kneighbour
Posts: 4
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| Posted: 04/03/2006, 5:11 PM |
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I have just downloaded the latest (3.something) and while CCS looks good, it is still a bit annoying. I looked at V2.3 way back, and had a similar reaction and never pursued it.
I use PHP and MySQL4, fairly typical, I would think. It took me some time to realise that I had to use an ODBC driver for the local database connection. You almost lost me at that point...I hate using ODBC...anyway, I downloaded the driver and set it up. I would have preferred a HTTP_tunnel direct to the online database. The problem now is that I have to have a copy of my website databases on my development machine.
Anyway, I connected to one table and used the Application builder to generate a grid listview. I setup a Server (FTP). No problems. But it did not work at all. It would not compile the project without errors. I had trouble even viewing the Code windows (basically, I couldn't). I eventually gave up and started another project - but exactly the same table, etc.
I found that I had lost the Connection that I had previously setup. I had also lost my FTP server details! Weird. When I created a new Project, I had to setup the Connection and FTP servers again. This does not seem right. Do I have to set these up for EVERY project?
But this time the project compiled ok and it uploaded to my FTP site. And it even ran! Except that the Live option does not look at the correct path. I upload to a subdirectory on the website (of course), but my local system does not know that. I cannot see how you tell CCS where my start page is - well, I can, it is in the Properties section, but changing that does not work.
As soon as you select "Live page", CCS uploads the whole lot again! This is unusable. It takes so long, even on broadband. At the very least, it should only upload files that have changed. At least you can cancel the operation. In this one little table application I am uploading 95 files (at 9k/s). Even if you just click any other tab (ie HTML, Code, etc), then Live, it uploads again!
I also have a problem with the popup calendar controls on date fields. They do not take the date of the field that they are linked to. They just come up with the current date, which is useless.
While none of these issues are killers, they are just the small things that I have found in the first hour of using the product.
I was also a bit perturbed to find that other users in this forum have had initial problems and are basically being fobbed off. This was one of the reasons I did not pursue V2.x way back. I got a quite hostile reception in the forum then with similar comments to these I am making now.
I am a software developer myself (Delphi), and we all know that some people will have problems with software that you "know" works. After all, if it did not work on your development machines, you would hardly release it! So just telling people that it works for you is not much of a solution or even much of a panacea.
And I am perfectly willing to accept that some/all of my initial issues are due to my lack of knowledge. But frankly, like most people, I do not have the time to learn a system backwards before I use it. Forcing me to read the Help is the first mistake. The whole idea of CCS and the like is to save time. If I cannot work out CCS (or whatever package) in a few minutes, and get what I want up on the website very quickly, then I am going to look for something else that does. The only reason I am pursuing this is that I liked V2.x and I like the look of V3.x even more.
Perhaps this time I will stick with it...
_________________
Kerry Neighbour |
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efficinet
Posts: 7
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| Posted: 04/03/2006, 7:58 PM |
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I understand your frustration as I was having similar issues and frustrations. The more I have used it the more I have learned the nuances. I am in the process of building an estimating application and it has really reduced my time so far. I am using ColdFusion and there seems to be less peer support for that language. My development environment includes a local application server and database. ODBC is pretty painless locally and I have always preferred having a mirrored development environment to my staging or production. I encourage you to give it a little more time. I am finding the persistance is starting to pay off for me. Good luck to you.
Quote kneighbour:
I have just downloaded the latest (3.something) and while CCS looks good, it is still a bit annoying. I looked at V2.3 way back, and had a similar reaction and never pursued it.
I use PHP and MySQL4, fairly typical, I would think. It took me some time to realise that I had to use an ODBC driver for the local database connection. You almost lost me at that point...I hate using ODBC...anyway, I downloaded the driver and set it up. I would have preferred a HTTP_tunnel direct to the online database. The problem now is that I have to have a copy of my website databases on my development machine.
Anyway, I connected to one table and used the Application builder to generate a grid listview. I setup a Server (FTP). No problems. But it did not work at all. It would not compile the project without errors. I had trouble even viewing the Code windows (basically, I couldn't). I eventually gave up and started another project - but exactly the same table, etc.
I found that I had lost the Connection that I had previously setup. I had also lost my FTP server details! Weird. When I created a new Project, I had to setup the Connection and FTP servers again. This does not seem right. Do I have to set these up for EVERY project?
But this time the project compiled ok and it uploaded to my FTP site. And it even ran! Except that the Live option does not look at the correct path. I upload to a subdirectory on the website (of course), but my local system does not know that. I cannot see how you tell CCS where my start page is - well, I can, it is in the Properties section, but changing that does not work.
As soon as you select "Live page", CCS uploads the whole lot again! This is unusable. It takes so long, even on broadband. At the very least, it should only upload files that have changed. At least you can cancel the operation. In this one little table application I am uploading 95 files (at 9k/s). Even if you just click any other tab (ie HTML, Code, etc), then Live, it uploads again!
I also have a problem with the popup calendar controls on date fields. They do not take the date of the field that they are linked to. They just come up with the current date, which is useless.
While none of these issues are killers, they are just the small things that I have found in the first hour of using the product.
I was also a bit perturbed to find that other users in this forum have had initial problems and are basically being fobbed off. This was one of the reasons I did not pursue V2.x way back. I got a quite hostile reception in the forum then with similar comments to these I am making now.
I am a software developer myself (Delphi), and we all know that some people will have problems with software that you "know" works. After all, if it did not work on your development machines, you would hardly release it! So just telling people that it works for you is not much of a solution or even much of a panacea.
And I am perfectly willing to accept that some/all of my initial issues are due to my lack of knowledge. But frankly, like most people, I do not have the time to learn a system backwards before I use it. Forcing me to read the Help is the first mistake. The whole idea of CCS and the like is to save time. If I cannot work out CCS (or whatever package) in a few minutes, and get what I want up on the website very quickly, then I am going to look for something else that does. The only reason I am pursuing this is that I liked V2.x and I like the look of V3.x even more.
Perhaps this time I will stick with it...
_________________
Efficinet Inc.
www.efficinet.com |
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kangus
Posts: 47
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| Posted: 04/03/2006, 11:33 PM |
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A few comments:
1. NEVER develop on a production machine. We have a test server that mirrors our production machine, we are cabled to it with 1GB NIC's. The ODBC thing; simply point the ODBC driver to your test server, both your design and live view will be seeing the same data.
2. FTP ? If we were to use CCS FTP it would be set as up in another SERVER profile so when we were done testing we could publish to the production machine by switching the SERVER profile. BUT: CCS only transfers one file at a time and most of our projects are over 800 pages. CCS does not support MDTM as far as I can tell, this means the file Date/Time will be changed to the Date/Time of the server your uploading the file to. We use an FTP client that spawns several processes at once so 10 or so files can be transferred at the same time and we have rules about file Timestamps.
3. Live View - back to item one: 1GB NIC's and who cares how many files! Really, we just installed Visual Source Safe and every file is checked OUT then IN every time we take a break, it only takes seconds with 1GB NIC's. It really doesn't upload everything, just everything that the ONE page loads to run.
4. POPUP Calendar control functionality? We have never had a request to have the POPUP Calendar display the objects date, the function of the control is to allow someone to pick a date to replace a date.
That you were able to publish a page in the first hour you used CCS is testament to your skill and knowledge, try Dreamweaver or GOLive (5 when it had data connectors), either of those products take more for less.
Keep at it, it just takes time. Read the manual, it will save you hours.
_________________
PHP 4/5 mySQL 4.1/5 CCS 3.x |
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Jim Canfield
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| Posted: 04/04/2006, 7:32 AM |
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Quote kneighbour:
I have just downloaded the latest (3.something) and while CCS looks good, it is still a bit annoying. I looked at V2.3 way back, and had a similar reaction and never pursued it.
I use PHP and MySQL4, fairly typical, I would think. It took me some time to realise that I had to use an ODBC driver for the local database connection. You almost lost me at that point...I hate using ODBC...anyway, I downloaded the driver and set it up. I would have preferred a HTTP_tunnel direct to the online database. The problem now is that I have to have a copy of my website databases on my development machine.
Anyway, I connected to one table and used the Application builder to generate a grid listview. I setup a Server (FTP). No problems. But it did not work at all. It would not compile the project without errors. I had trouble even viewing the Code windows (basically, I couldn't). I eventually gave up and started another project - but exactly the same table, etc.
I found that I had lost the Connection that I had previously setup. I had also lost my FTP server details! Weird. When I created a new Project, I had to setup the Connection and FTP servers again. This does not seem right. Do I have to set these up for EVERY project?
But this time the project compiled ok and it uploaded to my FTP site. And it even ran! Except that the Live option does not look at the correct path. I upload to a subdirectory on the website (of course), but my local system does not know that. I cannot see how you tell CCS where my start page is - well, I can, it is in the Properties section, but changing that does not work.
As soon as you select "Live page", CCS uploads the whole lot again! This is unusable. It takes so long, even on broadband. At the very least, it should only upload files that have changed. At least you can cancel the operation. In this one little table application I am uploading 95 files (at 9k/s). Even if you just click any other tab (ie HTML, Code, etc), then Live, it uploads again!
I also have a problem with the popup calendar controls on date fields. They do not take the date of the field that they are linked to. They just come up with the current date, which is useless.
While none of these issues are killers, they are just the small things that I have found in the first hour of using the product.
I was also a bit perturbed to find that other users in this forum have had initial problems and are basically being fobbed off. This was one of the reasons I did not pursue V2.x way back. I got a quite hostile reception in the forum then with similar comments to these I am making now.
I am a software developer myself (Delphi), and we all know that some people will have problems with software that you "know" works. After all, if it did not work on your development machines, you would hardly release it! So just telling people that it works for you is not much of a solution or even much of a panacea.
And I am perfectly willing to accept that some/all of my initial issues are due to my lack of knowledge. But frankly, like most people, I do not have the time to learn a system backwards before I use it. Forcing me to read the Help is the first mistake. The whole idea of CCS and the like is to save time. If I cannot work out CCS (or whatever package) in a few minutes, and get what I want up on the website very quickly, then I am going to look for something else that does. The only reason I am pursuing this is that I liked V2.x and I like the look of V3.x even more.
Perhaps this time I will stick with it...
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kneighbour
Posts: 4
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| Posted: 04/04/2006, 2:58 PM |
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Quote kangus:
1. NEVER develop on a production machine.
Well, I do. It is simply too much of a problem to have two systems. Well, 3 systems, actually, as I also do some work from home. All my work is done live on the web. All of my jobs are simply too small to go to that much effort and expense. After all, I am a Delphi programmer, not a web expert.
Quote kangus:
3. Live View - back to item one: 1GB NIC's and who cares how many files!
Well, if you are working on the web, then it is unusable. Perhaps it should be possible to turn this feature off? The problem is if you accidentally click on the Live tab, you have to go for a coffee.
Quote kangus:
4. POPUP Calendar control functionality? We have never had a request to have the POPUP Calendar display the objects date, the function of the control is to allow someone to pick a date to replace a date.
I suspect that it has not been asked for for two reasons -
: it is obvious!
:no-one likes popups anyway.
The thing is - for the test table I ran it on, this problem makes it useless. The dates are for months in the future, so it is actually a LOT quicker just to type them in. In fact, having the dates so far out of sync is more of a hindrance. People just assume that the popup shows the date it is linked to, so they will pick the new date assuming that. I certainly did!
Quote kangus:
That you were able to publish a page in the first hour you used CCS is testament to your skill and knowledge, try Dreamweaver or GOLive (5 when it had data connectors), either of those products take more for less.
Sure - I did not mean to imply that CCS was useless, or anything. It is great. If it was useless, I would not even have bothered visiting this forum!
I do not think that there is anything else (even Dreamweaver) that comes close to what it does. About the only competitors you have is PHPRunner or ScriptCase. With both of these products I had my test pages up in a matter of minutes. PHPRunner has a brilliant connection system using HTTPTunnel that puts me onto my live servers within seconds. But of course neither of these products are as powerful as CCS!
To me, as a programmer, some of these issues are incomprehensible. For example, no Delphi programmer I know would have a date popup that did not show the date of the field that it is linked to. In itself, it is no big deal - but it is puzzling. It is like the non globally persistent Connection and Server details. This is more of a problem as I deal with a lot of small projects - and setting up these things over and over again is a pain. The issue is why???
I gave my feedback because as a programmer myself, I LOVE it when users give me feedback. Even negative comments are great. We all do things differently, and I am sure that if you can think of ways to improve your product, then you will do so.
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Kerry Neighbour |
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WKempees
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| Posted: 04/04/2006, 3:27 PM |
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Quote :
> I use PHP and MySQL4, fairly typical, I would think. It took me some time
> to
> realise that I had to use an ODBC driver for the local database
> connection. You
> almost lost me at that point...I hate using ODBC...anyway, I downloaded
> the
> driver and set it up. I would have preferred a HTTP_tunnel direct to the
> online
> database. The problem now is that I have to have a copy of my website
> databases
> on my development machine.
Quote :
HTTP_tunnel is not possible, however, if your DB has a user that can connect
from an ip outside the realm of the DB Host,
than a ODBC connection can be made directly to that remote DB.
Eliminating the 'problem' of having a database on a development machine.
The 'Advantages' of having a DB on the development machine:
Smaller datasets, one could use and extraction of the main DB. I have a six
mio row DB which for testing and development I don't really need.
Development on a LapTop, one could do CCS dev, in a train plain or other non
internet connected facility.
Using excellent environments like WAMPP, we develop on XP LapTop with an
Apache/PhP/MySQL setup running as a service that resembles production.
Which would also eliminate the LivePage uploads everything.
In fact when you are going to the n'th itteration of you development cycle,
you don't want to frustrate a production environment serving users until you
are sure it is ready for release.
Walter.
> Anyway, I connected to one table and used the Application builder to
> generate a
> grid listview. I setup a Server (FTP). No problems. But it did not work at
> all.
> It would not compile the project without errors. I had trouble even
> viewing the
> Code windows (basically, I couldn't). I eventually gave up and started
> another
> project - but exactly the same table, etc.
>
> I found that I had lost the Connection that I had previously setup. I had
> also
> lost my FTP server details! Weird. When I created a new Project, I had to
> setup
> the Connection and FTP servers again. This does not seem right. Do I have
> to set
> these up for EVERY project?
>
> But this time the project compiled ok and it uploaded to my FTP site. And
> it
> even ran! Except that the Live option does not look at the correct path. I
> upload to a subdirectory on the website (of course), but my local system
> does
> not know that. I cannot see how you tell CCS where my start page is -
> well, I
> can, it is in the Properties section, but changing that does not work.
>
> As soon as you select "Live page", CCS uploads the whole lot again! This
> is
> unusable. It takes so long, even on broadband. At the very least, it
> should
> only upload files that have changed. At least you can cancel the
> operation. In
> this one little table application I am uploading 95 files (at 9k/s). Even
> if
> you just click any other tab (ie HTML, Code, etc), then Live, it uploads
> again!
>
>
> I also have a problem with the popup calendar controls on date fields.
> They do
> not take the date of the field that they are linked to. They just come up
> with
> the current date, which is useless.
>
> While none of these issues are killers, they are just the small things
> that I
> have found in the first hour of using the product.
>
> I was also a bit perturbed to find that other users in this forum have had
> initial problems and are basically being fobbed off. This was one of the
> reasons I did not pursue V2.x way back. I got a quite hostile reception in
> the
> forum then with similar comments to these I am making now.
>
> I am a software developer myself (Delphi), and we all know that some
> people
> will have problems with software that you "know" works. After all, if it
> did
> not work on your development machines, you would hardly release it! So
> just
> telling people that it works for you is not much of a solution or even
> much of
> a panacea.
>
> And I am perfectly willing to accept that some/all of my initial issues
> are due
> to my lack of knowledge. But frankly, like most people, I do not have the
> time
> to learn a system backwards before I use it. Forcing me to read the Help
> is the
> first mistake. The whole idea of CCS and the like is to save time. If I
> cannot
> work out CCS (or whatever package) in a few minutes, and get what I want
> up on
> the website very quickly, then I am going to look for something else that
> does.
> The only reason I am pursuing this is that I liked V2.x and I like the
> look of
> V3.x even more.
>
> Perhaps this time I will stick with it...
> _________________
> Kerry Neighbour
> ---------------------------------------
> Sent from YesSoftware forum
> http://forums.codecharge.com/
>
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roeya
Posts: 181
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| Posted: 04/06/2006, 5:34 AM |
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Quote :It is simply too much of a problem to have two systems. Well, 3 systems, actually, as I also do some work from home. All my work is done live on the web. All of my jobs are simply too small to go to that much effort and expense. After all, I am a Delphi programmer, not a web expert.
You can run web server localy on the development mechine, and you can just take the project on thumb drive to home. or you can setup web SVN server. Anyway working live on the webserver is not good - especially if you working on a production version used by clients.
I work with local webserver and publish when done, usually with no problems, and I work cross paltform - development WinXP server FreeBSD.
Regarding the Calender POPUP - I use Perl and as far as I remember the popup shows the date entered in the field when you click on it, I'll check it later again. maybe you have wrong parameter somewhere ?
CCS has limitations like all RAD tools but most of the time it just work as required.
Sometimes support are very helpful sometimes I think they do not know the prodcut at all - probably depends on the support person.
P.S. I never publish using CCS FTP server I use other tools for that
_________________
http://www.infoneto.com/ |
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WKempees
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| Posted: 04/06/2006, 6:03 AM |
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Quote :
> Regarding the Calender POPUP - I use Perl and as far as I remember the
> popup
> shows the date entered in the field when you click on it, I'll check it
> later
> again. maybe you have wrong parameter somewhere ?
>
Is true in PhP too!
So setting it in Before show primes the Popup.
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kangus
Posts: 47
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| Posted: 04/06/2006, 4:25 PM |
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Simple fix: RAM DISK; configure apache to run on your desktop (free and 10 minutes to install) create a RAM drive of 200mb or so, setup apache to use the RAM drive for the document root. Then set CCS to publish to the RAM drive and view the web files from your local apache. Create a second server profile for your production machine and switch to that profile to publish your finished product..... This is far faster then publishing to my local server even with 1GB NIC's.
Have fun
_________________
PHP 4/5 mySQL 4.1/5 CCS 3.x |
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kangus
Posts: 47
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| Posted: 04/06/2006, 5:04 PM |
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I had a second and looked at the behavior of the pop-up calendar, on a blank page I added a record with one field and tied that to a date column in a table. I added a Date Picker and clicked live page (I used the extra programmable buttons on my mouse to Live Page F10 or Quick Live Page Ctrl+F10) and the text box retrieved the first record in the table of 2/2/2006 and the Date Picker when clicked was on that date. If your pop-up date picker (PDP) doesn't it may be that you need to setup the formatting of the date field for the database and display field, if either one is not right the PDP won't show the date of the data, also check that the input field is text or date.
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PHP 4/5 mySQL 4.1/5 CCS 3.x |
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WKempees
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| Posted: 04/07/2006, 2:28 AM |
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Kangus,
Very good, forgot about that.
"kangus" <kangus@forum.codecharge> schreef in bericht
news:24435ac70ab97f@news.codecharge.com...
>I had a second and looked at the behavior of the pop-up calendar, on a
>blank
> page I added a record with one field and tied that to a date column in a
> table.
> I added a Date Picker and clicked live page (I used the extra programmable
> buttons on my mouse to Live Page F10 or Quick Live Page Ctrl+F10) and the
> text
> box retrieved the first record in the table of 2/2/2006 and the Date
> Picker
> when clicked was on that date. If your pop-up date picker (PDP) doesn't it
> may
> be that you need to setup the formatting of the date field for the
> database and
> display field, if either one is not right the PDP won't show the date of
> the
> data, also check that the input field is text or date.
>
> _________________
> PHP 4/5 mySQL 4.1/5 CCS 3.x
> ---------------------------------------
> Sent from YesSoftware forum
> http://forums.codecharge.com/
>
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roeya
Posts: 181
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| Posted: 04/07/2006, 4:33 AM |
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Quote kangus:
If your pop-up date picker (PDP) doesn't it may be that you need to setup the formatting of the date field for the database and display field, if either one is not right the PDP won't show the date of the data, also check that the input field is text or date.
This is one of the places where new users get confused - so many date formats - usually the defaults are correct, but if you have a problem here support can help you - they helped me when I have started using CCS
just provide them with all the needed information
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http://www.infoneto.com/ |
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