JimmyCrackedCorn
Posts: 583
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| Posted: 11/06/2006, 1:25 AM |
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I am trying to best understand just how great of an impact CCS can have on our projects.
Can anyone tell me how they use CCS? And how great the impact is?
For example, do you...
- use CCS mainly to create a starter project that you then manually tweak until your application is done?
OR
- use CCS from creation all the way through finishing your application?
At a glance, CCS sure looks good for creating forms and handlers but most of our real-world applications/databases have lots of warts! For example, we have apps where there are cascading relationships between tables and when we ran these through CCS it looks like we would need to do a good bit of custom coding to make these work.
And that brings me to my next question. In your experience, how difficult is it to add your own custom code to what CCS generates? Is it necessary to really understand what CCS puts "under the hood" in order to successfully add your own code?
Some time ago we abandoned Dreamweaver's code creator functionality because it was cleaner to simply code everything ourselves. But I am hopeful that we could use CCS a whole lot smarter than that.
My bottom line is I am purchasing the product no matter what! I'm convinced I can use it the next time I have to create even a basic form and recoup my investment. But I'd really like to know what is possible with this tool.
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Walter Kempees...you are dearly missed. |
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Benjamin Krajmalnik
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| Posted: 11/06/2006, 10:11 AM |
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Jimmy,
I have 2 commercial appliations (ASP), various websites, and an internal
applicatio which is a portal for our managed servies.
Your questions is not focused enough to really give you a reply.
Our websites do not use the CCS themes, for example (if nyou go to our
website - www.illumen.com - it is 100% CodeCharge).
In this case, a web designer who is a CSS guru did the layout. Having the
layout, I templatized it and coded it.
Our 2 ASP applications used the CCS themes (they are still running CCS 2.3).
While everything is maintained via CCS, it does use additional resources
which I merely latch in. For example, we use Ajax for some aspects (field
dependencies, for example). I use a modified framework based on the code
MarcWolf posted in the Codecharge forums. I have a single page - called
AjaxProvider (written in Codecharge) which process the multitude of Ajax
"functions". Much easier to maintain than haveing tens of functions. We
also use XP tabpanes (for data orgamization), enhanced tooltips.
All of these are scripts which are free to use.
Our managed services portal is PHP (CCS 3.x). For Ajax, we are using xAjax.
We have incorporated quite a few rich UI functionalities
(www.dhtmlgoodies.com, www.walterzorn.com are but a few). Mostly CCS
themes, although the html is not strictly generated by CodeCharge.
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JimmyCrackedCorn
Posts: 583
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| Posted: 11/06/2006, 12:49 PM |
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Quote Benjamin Krajmalnik:
Your questions is not focused enough to really give you a reply.
my questions are general because that's the kind of input I'm looking for right now! :) Thanks for your response.
I'd be very interested in anyone else's comments on how you are using CCS and how much of an impact it has on your work.
Also, do you also use Dreamweaver and/or VS2005? We use both and I'd like to establish a workflow for this process. I'm assuming it could be something like,
- create our design templates in Dreamweaver
- bring those into CCS
- use CCS to generate our core functionality
- use VS2005 to wire up the rest of our application
Does that make sense?
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Walter Kempees...you are dearly missed. |
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mamboBROWN
Posts: 1713
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| Posted: 11/06/2006, 3:48 PM |
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JimmyCrackedCorn
I actually use CCS at my day job and in my personal business. I have programmed numerous web applications from the ground up (Action Tracking System, Transition Web Application, Budget and Events web application just to name a few) with a lot of custom programming. I have used SAMP (Solaris-Apache-MySQL-n-MSSQL-PHP4/5), WIMP(Windows-IIS-MySQL-PHP4), and LAMP(Linux-Apache-MySQL3/5-PHP4/5). Currently what I have been doing is taking my standard pages (sections) including the code and reusing them in other projects for example Admin, User, Messages, etc... I believe in the KISS (Keep It Simply Simple) method of programming for users and programmers. I also believe in not recreating the wheel as well. Here is a link to one of my applications that I recently submitted for the CCS 2006 competition: http://forums.codecharge.com/posts.php?post_id=74329
I use CCS exclusively at work (to design web applications). My largest web application had 400+ registered users.
Hopefully this is helpful to you...
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Edd
Posts: 547
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| Posted: 11/06/2006, 3:50 PM |
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Jimmy
The reason I chose CCS was because or the factors of separation between presentation layers and business rules which is the basis of any use of a rapid prototype methodology.
In the years that I have had CCS I have extended the CCS framework - and it was very easy to do. I sometines forget what is CCS and what is mine. Example - I use 3 external tools - they all fit into CCS seamlessly.
I have to agree CCS is mainly a database delivery tool - if my project was 80% graphics 20% database work - I would stick with Dreamweaver. However my experience has shown that 20% soon becomes 80% once a site is installed.
CCS, because it is a database delivery tool has a strong framework and it is that framework that is it's strength. Example we had to design and deliver 83 operational forms / enquiries and reports (over a new database) in 6 weeks to a customer from scratch with 2 reviews. Try that in any other product than CCS and you are crazy.
My methodology is such (after you have confirmed your database platform)
1. Use CCS to generate core functionality to prototype stage.
2. At the same time give a graphics and CCS guru your stylesheets and graphics from a core CCS products and say go for it - but they must stay within the product CCS naming conventions.
3. Merge the 2.
4. Get customer feedback on both and change accordingly (this usually happens 1 / 2 times)
5. Finish the project in whatever you want (I have never had to leave CCS)
Note there will be some pages in your project that you don't use CCS, i.e. specialist opening pages or something obtuse, etc - use dreamweaver or VS2005 - whatever you like.
In some ways CCS defines what you do which is not that bad as it is all reusable.
Using the above will make your systems very inexpensive to develop and maintain - consequently better quoting and higher profit margins / repeat business.
I confess that I am a CCS zealot - When a product has proven itself time and time again (without faltering and you have an immense amount of support from the forums and the CCS iorganisation) you become a zealot. e.g. 3.1 was just released AT NO COST to existing customers - how many organistation do this?
As I say to everyone - if you find a better product out there tell me. After 3 years I am still waiting)
Edd
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JimmyCrackedCorn
Posts: 583
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| Posted: 11/07/2006, 6:21 PM |
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Thanks for the detailed responses! It really helps.
One more thing...
We are purchasing the Infragistics NetAdvantage for .NET suite of controls, components and tools.
Would it be possible and/or difficult to integrate these tools with CCS? Has anyone done this?
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Walter Kempees...you are dearly missed. |
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GeorgeS
Posts: 206
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| Posted: 11/07/2006, 10:30 PM |
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Jimmy,
I had to design one back end using VS.NET 2005 / C# with Infragistics grids, combo boxes and 2-3 other controls.
Customer was convinced by the previous programmer to use Infragistics.
In 2 months I was asked to get rid of Infragistics because they have made every page slow to load after Oracle DB got a little bigger.
Now, with standard controls it's fast again.
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JimmyCrackedCorn
Posts: 583
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| Posted: 11/08/2006, 12:21 AM |
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Quote GeorgeS:
Jimmy,
I had to design one back end using VS.NET 2005 / C# with Infragistics grids, combo boxes and 2-3 other controls.
Customer was convinced by the previous programmer to use Infragistics.
In 2 months I was asked to get rid of Infragistics because they have made every page slow to load after Oracle DB got a little bigger.
Now, with standard controls it's fast again.
Thanks for that feedback George. We really like the fact that the new components from Infragistics have AJAX built-in the grids and components so much of the postbacks, etc. are taken care of for you. We will have to check into what you said about slowing down.
Just curious, how big was the Oracle dB when it slowed down? Our main application right now would have approximately 5000 users and maybe 2000 products.
And, did you use the Infragistics components with CCS? If so how did that work?
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Walter Kempees...you are dearly missed. |
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GeorgeS
Posts: 206
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| Posted: 11/08/2006, 3:21 PM |
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I think Ora.DB was apprx. the same size as yours.
You may have different results with Infragistics.
There is another company that does the same types of .net controls - telerik.com - check them.
Never used any of the above with CCS.
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GeorgeS |
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optron
Posts: 114
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| Posted: 11/16/2006, 9:22 AM |
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Jimmy - you have placed interesting question and I would appraciate others to share some more insight on how you guys use CCS ?
The tools I consider are: CCS + Dreamweaver8
To add to this fist message: I'm planning to create a pretty large portal, and my question is:
shal I consider doing main work in DMX8, then just throw pieces of applications into it and do the final touches (mainly look&feel)
or
create a portal in CCS (like one in the example pack) then use DMX8 to make the adjustments ?
CCS seem to be a efficient in building Apps, however it is very in making creational designs.
DMX8 is excelent as design and site maintenance tool, however it is not so efficient in creating advanced Apps. I would like to know i.e. how you guys handle CSS files ? Say I have a HTML + CSS template which has all design elements structured, all images in place, menus and links set - how would I match this to the CCS application ?
Thanks for insights - Arthur
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