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YesSoftware Forums -> CodeCharge Studio -> Wishes

 wiki style manuals

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jacem

Posts: 87
Posted: 06/21/2007, 3:10 PM

Hi,
Some posts has been critical of the manuals for CCS. As a relatively new user (3 online databases) some of the critism is justified however in the end of have found my way around enough to be on my forth online database. The forums and the CCS community behind the forums as well as the Yes support team really make up for the manual shortfalls.

However maybe it is time to consider doing the next major revision of the manuals / CCS as a wiki so that the community can assist with the expensive busines of building, enalrging and improving the overall effectiveness of the CCS manuals. Sometimes you need to wade through a help of unhelpful posts to get to the gem you need so I am thinking that a wiki approach will help greatly to tie it all back together - the best of the forum posts on particular topics at incorproated into the Wiki manual for CCS.

YesSoftware benefits as the product useability goes up, especially for new users but the CCS community provides a portion of the grunt to get it done and keep it shining.

Just my two cents worth.

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Wkempees
Posted: 06/22/2007, 4:32 AM

Agreed.
Willing to host.
Just need approval to 'grab'the existing docs and Wiki them.
Then identify contributors and admin.

Walter
DonB
Posted: 06/23/2007, 12:10 AM

I created a wiki some time back, but regrettably have not had time to add to
it much. http://ccswiki.gotodon.net
I hope that all the rude and obscene edits have been cleared up. I was hit
with a bunch recently. First time I'd ever had to rollback changes and I
hope I did it right.

--
DonB

http://www.gotodon.com/ccbth
jacem

Posts: 87
Posted: 06/24/2007, 2:39 PM

This seems a perfect start.

I wonder how the Yes people feel about going down this route for their manuals?
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jacem

Posts: 87
Posted: 06/24/2007, 3:44 PM

Looking at your initial wiki pages it is clear to me this is the way forward but to make it a success we need to get Yes onboard to put these manuals online in this wiki. That way it will be a case of the community enhancing the manuals with the 'on the ground' user knowledge.

So what about it YES guys & gals?
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peterr


Posts: 5971
Posted: 06/25/2007, 1:12 AM

Hi,

Thanks for the suggestion.
This is something we've been considering for some time and I suspect we will setup a wiki-type documentation system in the future, when we find or develop something that meets our expectations and requirements.
_________________
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YesSoftware Forums Moderator
For product support please visit http://support.yessoftware.com
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marcwolf


Posts: 361
Posted: 08/09/2007, 7:50 PM

But Please continue the paper manuals.

For some people a hardcopy manual is a relaxing way to read and discover new twists to an product.

Online is good for updates or looking for a specific solution..

Interestingly many of the issues I see on this forum can be put down to Read The Manual from Beginning to End.. and then Start the Application.

When I first got CCS I actually printed out all of the Common file to see how they worked and what I can use from them. It has proven very worthwhile.

Take care
Dave
_________________
' Coding Coding Coding
Keep Those Keyboards Coding.
Raw Code!!!!!!!
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JimmyCrackedCorn

Posts: 583
Posted: 08/09/2007, 10:35 PM

I agree with Dave. Please do not lose the print-format documentation. It is FAR more useful to me as I can carry it around. Read it on the can (yes I really do that!) Print it. Search it on the computer. Etc.

I really don't like the concept of online-only, user-generated documentation. I have enough trouble with docs generated by the producers of the software! :D
_________________
Walter Kempees...you are dearly missed.
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wkempees
Posted: 08/10/2007, 2:46 AM

@JCC
Same habits huh, just installed 7".
W
"JimmyCrackedCorn" <JimmyCrackedCorn@forum.codecharge> schreef in bericht
news:2246bbf90aab832@news.codecharge.com...
>I agree with Dave. Please do not lose the print-format documentation. It is
>FAR
> more useful to me as I can carry it around. Read it on the can (yes I
> really do
> that!) Print it. Search it on the computer. Etc.
>
> I really don't like the concept of online-only, user-generated
> documentation. I
> have enough trouble with docs generated by the producers of the software!
> :D
> ---------------------------------------
> Sent from YesSoftware forum
> http://forums.yessoftware.com/
>

jacem

Posts: 87
Posted: 11/14/2007, 2:39 AM

IMHO: we might have fluffed over the key point of the suggestion: by going to wiki style manual the CCS community can be continually enhancing the manual well beyond the crew at YES. Currently the forums provide the missing examples, tricks, tip and things to avoid with the various aspects of the product. A wiki approach to the manual would bring the voluminous information contained within the forum entries into the structure of a wiki manual.

Most newbie’s would agree (I am just one level beyond newbie with 7 projects under my belt) that the documentation has large gaps that make early adoption of the product hit and miss (depending on the persistence of the individual). This is the way to build a truly comprehensive manual for CCS without the profit hit on YES.
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adgreen

Posts: 27
Posted: 11/14/2007, 6:55 AM

I also think this is a good idea. The keys to making a workable user-contributive documentation is Structure and Moderation. Issues such as product version differences (some very subtle), programming language versions, and databases make a difficult job for anyone who might want to add to a "wiki" in a way that reflects the "agnostic" nature of the product. It's actually very hard. (I'm no wiki expert).

I think "tips and tricks" are a fine idea, and this is the flavor of the discussion I'm reading here, but these should not be part of documentation. Rather, a well defined "code library" is more more suitable for this kind of thing. Such a library could be structured by version, language, and possibly database. But it should not be part of the docs.

So, I would suggest that a core product documentation be available as a wiki, but only updatedable by Yes software by moderation, and that a code library wiki be established as well, that is integrated with the documentation, but user-updated and well designed beforehand to properly isolate version and language variants.

Yes?

Adrian.
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JimmyCrackedCorn

Posts: 583
Posted: 11/14/2007, 7:54 AM

I agree with adgreen. a user-controlled wiki for the docs sounds great but I'm not sure there are enough users who can and will contribute regularly, for writing, editing and reviewing, to make this successful. and my fear is Yes will put less effort into the docs than they do now if this is viewed as the official documentation resource. plus there is the wiki/Colbert effect where anyone with a keyboard can screw up the docs unless you use moderators.
_________________
Walter Kempees...you are dearly missed.
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adgreen

Posts: 27
Posted: 11/18/2007, 11:47 PM

The PHP online documention is sort of similar to the way things might work.

This is extracted from their "Add Manual Note" page: http://au2.php.net/manual/add-note.php

...
Quote :
Your IP Address will be logged with the submitted note and made public on the PHP manual user notes mailing list. The IP address is logged as part of the notes moderation process, and won't be shown within the PHP manual itself.

If you are trying to report a bug, or request a new feature or language change you're in the wrong place.

If you are just commenting on the fact that something is not documented, save your breath. This is where you add to the documentation, not where you ask us to add the documentation.

If you have an addition or change request, open a Documentation Problem in our bug system, where your idea can be discussed.

This is also not the correct place to ask questions (even if you see others have done that before, we are editing the notes slowly but surely). If you need support send email to the php-general list, or see what other support options are available.
...

Example:
http://au2.php.net/manual/en/ref.array.php

Because I'm so new to php, I find this resource very useful. Just reading the user-submitted examples and code has given me a boost - especially as I often find exactly the thing I'm looking for in some user's esoteric example!

Anyhow, the interaction between official docs and user contribution works well I think. And might be (on obviously a smaller scale) one way to approach this.

Adrian
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jacem

Posts: 87
Posted: 11/19/2007, 1:41 PM

This is exactly what I am talking about. The guts is provided by Yes and is really just a reformat of existing manuals but the community takes up the batton with examples, greater explanations and traps to avoid with tricks to use. It works well with the php community so it would work well with CCS.
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