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 CSS and alignment

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TheunisP

Posts: 340
Posted: 08/22/2007, 12:48 PM

I suppose you guys may have noticed that the 'upgrade' uses a new format of CSS styles - anyhow for some or other reason CCS now decided that everything in TD tags must be left alligned - even if I keep the default of rows as none

1) I contacted support - no response

2) I dont want (or need) to edit the CSS manually - because it will be overwritten and point is that it shouldn't be needed

ok any ideas? have I perhaps missed a new 'feature' (cough cough bug) to set this up?
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TheunisP

Posts: 340
Posted: 08/23/2007, 3:54 AM

support came back and on my question, with 2 'solutions' both which means manually editing something that worked fine previously, their reply was "Unfortunately itís not possible to set align for TD data via CCS Style Builder."

so why do CCS set settings that can't be controlled?

so....

it baffles and saddens me that when making changes like these CCS just do it, with no worries about how it would affect the users - especially if there is no way switching off the new behaviour

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DonB
Posted: 08/23/2007, 5:15 AM

TD has always left-aligned for me. Only TH centered. That seems like
correct and desirable behavior to me, too. You are free to put your own css
in to override that - or copy the style to a new one, adjust the things you
don't like, and apply THAT style instead of the standard one. I suspect
your style was customized already to center text in the TDs and now you've
lost your previous customization because the standard theme got overwritten.

--
DonB

http://ccswiki.gotodon.net


"TheunisP" <TheunisP@forum.codecharge> wrote in message
news:446cd6764d5ef4@news.codecharge.com...
> support came back and on my question, with 2 'solutions' both which means
> manually editing something that worked fine previously, their reply was
> "Unfortunately it's not possible to set align for TD data via CCS Style
> Builder."
>
> so why do CCS set settings that can't be controlled?
>
> so....
>
> it baffles and saddens me that when making changes like these CCS just do
it,
> with no worries about how it would affect the users - especially if there
is no
> way switching off the new behaviour
>
>
> ---------------------------------------
> Sent from YesSoftware forum
> http://forums.codecharge.com/
>

TheunisP

Posts: 340
Posted: 08/23/2007, 6:23 AM

it was NEVER aligned - HTML TDs default to left - but CCS forces it now (below a copy of my style.css file - NOT customized - as the previous CCS created it) - I'll lick anybody that can find a text LEFT align that or any align for that matter in the TD tag

The fact that is that CCS is is now forcing an align to TD which you can't set - it is a sh*tty way of doing things - even support now denies that the product use to work like that (I had to send them my original files to proof it)

As for the normal suggestions that I should just edit this and that - it doesn't help - why must one keep on changing stuff manually? It worked. Now it doesn't.

/* CCSTheme v 3.x */
/* General */

/* BEGIN Common */
body {
font-family: Trebuchet MS; font-size: 13px;

}

.text {
color: #000000
}

a.menulink:link, a.menulink:visited {
color: #41697e;
}

a.menulink:hover, a.menulink:active {
color: #41697e;
}


a:link {
color: #41697e;
}

a:visited {
color: #41697e;
}

a:hover,a:active {
color: #41697e;
}

ul, ol, blockquote {
margin-top: 5px;
margin-bottom: 10px;
margin-left: 20px
}

form {
margin: 0px;
}

h1 {
font-size: 250%; font-family: Trebuchet MS;
margin-top: 5px;
margin-bottom: 5px;
}

h2 {
font-size: 200%; font-family: Trebuchet MS;
margin-top: 15px;
margin-bottom: 5px;
}

h3 {
font-size: 200%; font-family: Trebuchet MS; font-weight: normal;
margin-top: 15px;
margin-bottom: 5px;
}

h4 {
font-size: 150%; font-family: Trebuchet MS; font-weight: normal;
margin-top: 15px;
margin-bottom: 5px;
}

h5 {
font-size: 12px; font-family: Verdana;
margin-top: 15px;
margin-bottom: 5px;
}

h6 {
font-size: 12px; font-weight: normal; font-family: Verdana;
margin-top: 15px;
margin-bottom: 5px;
}

th {
font-family: Trebuchet MS; font-size: 13px;
}

td {
font-family: Trebuchet MS; font-size: 13px;
}

/* END Common */
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TheunisP

Posts: 340
Posted: 08/23/2007, 6:28 AM

for anybody that is wondering why this is such an issue:

by forcing a style sheet left align, the following happens in IE7

- the align tag of TD stops working
- HR tags break any paragraph (P tag) alignment formatting
etc etc
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DonB
Posted: 08/23/2007, 10:20 AM

Just *HOW* is CCS 'forcing' anything? By the stylesheet you provided, there
is nothing at all relating to justification of text. Elsewhere you brought
up IE7. I don't have that handy but now I suspect that the default
stylesheet (built in to every browser) is different for IE7.

You can see the browser defaults using this url:
res://msxml.dll/defaultss.xsl (at least that works in IE6)

--
DonB

http://ccswiki.gotodon.net


"TheunisP" <TheunisP@forum.codecharge> wrote in message
news:446cd8a6471278@news.codecharge.com...
> it was NEVER aligned - HTML TDs default to left - but CCS forces it now
(below
> a copy of my style.css file - NOT customized - as the previous CCS created
it) -
> I'll lick anybody that can find a text LEFT align that or any align for
that
> matter in the TD tag
>
> The fact that is that CCS is is now forcing an align to TD which you can't
set
> - it is a sh*tty way of doing things - even support now denies that the
product
> use to work like that (I had to send them my original files to proof it)
>
> As for the normal suggestions that I should just edit this and that - it
> doesn't help - why must one keep on changing stuff manually? It worked.
Now it
> doesn't.
>
> /* CCSTheme v 3.x */
> /* General */
>
> /* BEGIN Common */
> body {
> font-family: Trebuchet MS; font-size: 13px;
>
> }
>
> text {
> color: #000000
> }
>
> a.menulink:link, a.menulink:visited {
> color: #41697e;
> }
>
> a.menulink:hover, a.menulink:active {
> color: #41697e;
> }
>
>
> a:link {
> color: #41697e;
> }
>
> a:visited {
> color: #41697e;
> }
>
> a:hover,a:active {
> color: #41697e;
> }
>
> ul, ol, blockquote {
> margin-top: 5px;
> margin-bottom: 10px;
> margin-left: 20px
> }
>
> form {
> margin: 0px;
> }
>
> h1 {
> font-size: 250%; font-family: Trebuchet MS;
> margin-top: 5px;
> margin-bottom: 5px;
> }
>
> h2 {
> font-size: 200%; font-family: Trebuchet MS;
> margin-top: 15px;
> margin-bottom: 5px;
> }
>
> h3 {
> font-size: 200%; font-family: Trebuchet MS; font-weight: normal;
> margin-top: 15px;
> margin-bottom: 5px;
> }
>
> h4 {
> font-size: 150%; font-family: Trebuchet MS; font-weight: normal;
> margin-top: 15px;
> margin-bottom: 5px;
> }
>
> h5 {
> font-size: 12px; font-family: Verdana;
> margin-top: 15px;
> margin-bottom: 5px;
> }
>
> h6 {
> font-size: 12px; font-weight: normal; font-family: Verdana;
> margin-top: 15px;
> margin-bottom: 5px;
> }
>
> th {
> font-family: Trebuchet MS; font-size: 13px;
> }
>
> td {
> font-family: Trebuchet MS; font-size: 13px;
> }
>
> /* END Common */
> ---------------------------------------
> Sent from YesSoftware forum
> http://forums.codecharge.com/
>

TheunisP

Posts: 340
Posted: 08/23/2007, 10:34 AM

That is the point "a copy of my style.css file - NOT customized - as the previous CCS created it" - and it DIDN'T force it - it DOES now
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DonB
Posted: 08/23/2007, 11:06 AM

OK, fine. Copy the style that's the way you like it to a new folder with a
new name under the CCS Components/Styles folder, use that and be happy. Or
not.

--
DonB

http://ccswiki.gotodon.net


"TheunisP" <TheunisP@forum.codecharge> wrote in message
news:446cdc53c90e0c@news.codecharge.com...
> That is the point "a copy of my style.css file - NOT customized - as the
> previous CCS created it" - and it DIDN'T force it - it DOES now
> ---------------------------------------
> Sent from YesSoftware forum
> http://forums.codecharge.com/
>

Vasiliy

Posts: 378
Posted: 08/23/2007, 12:32 PM

Quote :
OK, fine. Copy the style that's the way you like it to a new folder with a
new name under the CCS Components/Styles folder, use that and be happy. Or
not.

:-D
_________________
Vasiliy
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TheunisP

Posts: 340
Posted: 08/23/2007, 3:48 PM

round and round they go
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JimmyCrackedCorn

Posts: 583
Posted: 08/23/2007, 9:55 PM

if the behavior of the tool has changed then it is certainly worth discussing it. and if it now requires you to do additional work you did not have to do before, then being annoyed certainly seems warranted to me!

DonB, I guess almost all bugs/issues could be dismissed with your suggestion to find a workaround and then "use that and be happy. Or not."

I, like TheunisP, prefer they be addressed at their source.
_________________
Walter Kempees...you are dearly missed.
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TheunisP

Posts: 340
Posted: 08/24/2007, 1:32 AM

let's state that in the 1st place that I in general like CCS a lot, however since I use it much the same as MS products in a production environment I expect certain things from the tool

In the past years I've got used to, but don't need to like or accept, what I would call the 3 steps of reporting a bug, it starts by you explaining the problem (this can take a while with much up and down of mails flying arround), in this step the scene is set to make you look stupid later on

the next step, is denial - "naah it can't be", "you are defintely not doing it according to standard" etc.

the final is the work-around step, "so why are you complaining, here is the work-around (and why didn't you think about it)"

this thread started by CCS changing 1 thing in their common CSS files, a small change but still a change that were made with no way of rectifying within the IDE's interface (unless you count actually editing the file)

I got CCS support so far to aknowledge that they made the change, they also admit that is in the exact place I pointed out - but is also quick (deny stage) to say that within other sections of the CSS alignment was set. So? My problem is not with the control labels etc. where you can change alignment within the IDE, my point is that they changed a basic value (forced a value) in a common area, without even taking in consideration the result.

A stupid, small value - a system wide change resulted

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DonB
Posted: 08/24/2007, 4:57 AM

Holy crap it's just a left-align on TD's, it's not a big deal. Especially
when a perfectly fine solution exists and takes all of maybe 2 minutes to
accomplish.
I consider the built in style sheets as only starting places anyway. I have
yet to have a project that didn't involve adjustments to the base styles to
get what I really need.

This isn't like a code generator bug generating broken code.
--
DonB

http://ccswiki.gotodon.net


"JimmyCrackedCorn" <JimmyCrackedCorn@forum.codecharge> wrote in message
news:446ce64b44ef5c@news.codecharge.com...
> if the behavior of the tool has changed then it is certainly worth
discussing
> it. and if it now requires you to do additional work you did not have to
do
> before, then being annoyed certainly seems warranted to me!
>
> DonB, I guess almost all bugs/issues could be dismissed with your
suggestion to
> find a workaround and then "use that and be happy. Or not."
>
> I, like TheunisP, prefer they be addressed at their source.
> ---------------------------------------
> Sent from YesSoftware forum
> http://forums.yessoftware.com/
>

TheunisP

Posts: 340
Posted: 08/27/2007, 5:52 PM

I understand DonB in that it is compared to the actual coding not suppose to be a big deal, but seems that this problem was just the start of a couple more....

I took your advice and decided to well, wing it, I then recreated the grids on a couple of screens to get everything in step again and got to a point...

... where something is adding inline CSS without me asking for it - borders, BGs and fonts that is nowhere else specified
... selecting a table to do some cosmetic changes brings the previous controls CSS up
... TD and other inline CSS refuse to apply or save
... and CCS now made CSS changes to more places that cannot be accessed via the stylebuilder, so will have to manually edit these
... and the editor keeps on changing certain CSS attributes, 'correcting' my entries, to what it believes it should be

I still believe that being able to switch off the editors 'intelligent' behaviour should solve a lot of problems, because at least 1/2 of the above it automatic behaviour





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Waspman

Posts: 948
Posted: 09/11/2007, 4:55 AM

Have you made any progress?

Seems everyone else is happy with 3.2?

Surely proper CSS integration is important?

Maybe it's me?


Tony - (still on 3.1):-(
_________________
http://www.waspmedia.co.uk
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TheunisP

Posts: 340
Posted: 09/11/2007, 6:48 AM

5 or 6 patches later from CCS - I currently have a problem on how they implemented W3C - they believe a string with a space in is an empty string - they also pointed out that the problem that I have will only occur in IE, so I pointed out that over 85% of our visitors is using IE

You will also notice one extra thing my CCS editor has learned the new habit of replacing the WIDTH table and td tags with a style version of width - it wouldn't have bothered me just that testing accross a couple of browsers they don't yield the same results.

Most of my queries were ansered that W3C says you have to use this or that, my understanding is that W3C is a guideline - you don't sign up and have to conform - most ofg the current problems is exposed when editing more legacy systems - which works fine, but as soon as you edit...

PS. also something that CCS support pointed out if you start in XHTML or whatever you can't change it without a lot of manual editing

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Waspman

Posts: 948
Posted: 09/28/2007, 9:04 AM

What about the forced boarders around table and stuff?

Have we got to live with it or stick with 3.1


T
_________________
http://www.waspmedia.co.uk
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