Sam
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| Posted: 03/25/2003, 9:42 AM |
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Friends,
I am very disappointed. Seems like YesSoftware is not interested in CC anymore. That's too bad.
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JackFruit3D (sif)
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| Posted: 03/25/2003, 1:25 PM |
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I've been using Codecharge for nearly two years now... and i have looked at CCS. But alas... i don't like having to work with several files to do my work. I dislike code/templates combinations. since i havn't seen a CCS template with only ASP 2.0 or ASP 3.0 WITHOUT templates. I will not migrate to it.
CCS is not simple enought to move to yet.
My own PERSONAL OPINIONS!!!
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RonB
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| Posted: 03/25/2003, 1:45 PM |
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CCS not simple enough yet?
I don't think it will ever get simple. It isn't meant to be simple. That's what CC is for. CCS is targeted to the professional developers that are used to working with tools like visual studio etc. Personaly I dislike working without templates. This way I can work quickly doing the coding and, if I want to, let others do the layout stuff.
CC is great, I started with cc before CCS was out. After grinding thrue the steep learning curve I could never go back to CC though. CCS just has to much to offer once you get the hang of it.
In general I think a lot of people make the mistake that CCS is more of the same. It's not meant for the same audience as CC. If you want quick development with no thrills CC's your product. I couldn't work with CC for the more serious stuff. The way events work in CC is just to cumbersome. CCS has a clear events structure wich allows me to use less code to get the same result. The separate event page has another advantage. I try and document what I code myself and it's a blessing having all the events in one place, keeps things organised.
Ron
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Steven
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| Posted: 03/26/2003, 12:08 AM |
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I think the topic of this thread is going off course, its a what about CC topic, not a whats best between CC or CCS.
There are some obvious improvements that could be added to the CC program , which I am sure wouldnt take too much effort but would improve things no end,
1/ Drag n Drop moving of form elements to change oder, rather than singular up/down moveents which can take ages on a form with 30+ items.
2/ upload capability built in via click able options or as a page type in the page wizard choices.
3/ Multiple colum forms, ie the ability to make a normal form 1x column by many times rows, alter to xx columns. would allow the easy building of photo galleries etc etc
the 2nd and 3rd items above are not imossable to do, by hand coding the options , but if these where GUI choosable options it would improove the product loads.
a choice of colours to show the pages in the Map view would be cool, it would enable easy viewing of the Site Map, if for instance you could colour all admin pages blue , all user pages red, or even just page colours depending on the security level. either will show the site map in a way thats more intuative.
I am happy with CCS, but I am really an avid user of CC, its CC that brought me here originally, CCS is an added bonus, but CC is the core program which I would hope that now CCS 2.0 is released, Yes software will take timeout to look at improving.
Steven Dowd
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No Name
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| Posted: 03/26/2003, 11:18 PM |
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Steven,
I could not agree with you more. I too enjoy working with CCS but for real, paid for, work I use CC with Dreamweaver for final layout -- works great.
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Alfredo C.
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| Posted: 03/27/2003, 9:37 AM |
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I was one of the first in purchasing CC and I did because CC was SIMPLE to use and created GOOD web applications FAST and EASY with a CLEAN interface. I normally design with NO TEMPLATES, applications run faster and I have learned to embedded the layout and images inside the page events.
I did not switched to CCS since I have a year reading in the forums a lot of contradictory opinions. People that like it and people that do not like it, the average complains are difficult to use, unstable, lack of documentation. With CCS 2.0 documentation has improved a lot, I installed but I see the interface and I begin to have a head ache.
I understand that CCS has a lot of features, but I do not have the time for a long learning curve, I need to be productive. I will like to see very soon a CC 3.0 with new form types like: Calendar, Survey, Directory, Editable Grid, Navigation, Drop Down Menu, Site Map, etc., and the possibility to have dependent list boxed without external programming and all the features that other CC users requested.
PLEASE CODE CHARGE TEAM, LISTEN:
1.- THE FIRST MAXIM OF SUCCESS IN BUSINESS IS TO LISTEN YOUR CUSTOMERS BASE.
2.- IF YOU PLAN TO MAKE A CHANGE OR RELEASE A NEW PRODUCT, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE DO A SURVEY AMONG YOUR CUSTOMERS, I AM VERY PLEASED WITH CODE CHARGE AND IT WILL BE A PLEASURE TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTIONS, SINCE I KNOW THEY WILL LEAD TO AN EVEN BETTER PRODUCT.
3.- IF FROM THE SURVEY YOU DISCOVER THAT THE 80% LOVES CCS AND ONLY 20% INSIST ON CC, WELL, WE (THE 20%) WILL NEED TO INVEST TIME IN LEARNING CCS, ** NO MORE DISCUSSIONS! **. BUT IF IT IS THE CONTRARY (80% LOVE CC AND 20% CCS) YOU WILL HAVE TO THINK ABOUT CC 3.0 FAST!.
THANKS FOR YOUR GREAT PRODUCTS CODE CHARGE TEAM
AND THANKS TO LISTEN CODE CHARGE TEAM,
WE ALL WAIT FOR YOUR RESPONSE
Best Regards
Alfredo C.
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Sam
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| Posted: 03/27/2003, 10:55 AM |
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Bravo Alfredo,
It's not just Alfredo, Everyone is saying.....
PLEASE CODE CHARGE TEAM, LISTEN:
1.- THE FIRST MAXIM OF SUCCESS IN BUSINESS IS TO LISTEN YOUR CUSTOMERS BASE.
2.- IF YOU PLAN TO MAKE A CHANGE OR RELEASE A NEW PRODUCT, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE DO A SURVEY AMONG YOUR CUSTOMERS, I AM VERY PLEASED WITH CODE CHARGE AND IT WILL BE A PLEASURE TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTIONS, SINCE I KNOW THEY WILL LEAD TO AN EVEN BETTER PRODUCT.
3.- IF FROM THE SURVEY YOU DISCOVER THAT THE 80% LOVES CCS AND ONLY 20% INSIST ON CC, WELL, WE (THE 20%) WILL NEED TO INVEST TIME IN LEARNING CCS, ** NO MORE DISCUSSIONS! **. BUT IF IT IS THE CONTRARY (80% LOVE CC AND 20% CCS) YOU WILL HAVE TO THINK ABOUT CC 3.0 FAST!.
THANKS FOR YOUR GREAT PRODUCTS CODE CHARGE TEAM
AND THANKS TO LISTEN CODE CHARGE TEAM,
WE ALL WAIT FOR YOUR RESPONSE
Best Regards
Alfredo C.
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Steven
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| Posted: 03/27/2003, 11:14 AM |
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Guys,
I agree with what your trying to do, but the way your talking it up, its like your trying to get a vote CC or CCS, and thats not going to be god is it, its not about whats best, its not about which is easiest or hardest to use.
Its just about asking Yes Soft' let us know whats happenning with CC, whether it is going to get any new features, additions, extra's.
making the point into a vote isnt good, there is bound to be overlap between the products, its like MS, they have MSSQL, MSAccess, MS Excell, all could be argued to do mostly the same work, hold and serve data, but they all have their own work uses,
CC and CCS both have basically the same use, just from different points, , do not turn the thread into a vote, that will just stir up CCS and CC groupies into a forum slangi9ng match, and defeat the object of the original request
Still quietly waiting for some sort of response from Yes Software about CC
Steven Dowd
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Rip
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| Posted: 03/27/2003, 11:38 AM |
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So if you're saying that only 80% uses CCS and only 20% use CC then they should just ignore those who use CC?
That is the most assanine and insulting to those who have used the program and love it.
I CANNOT stand CCS' gui, editing features, and built in crappy html editor. Its handling of DB's is totally unlike CC, which I find much easier to set up relational links to other tables. Its not bloated either. I find that generating the code in CC and exporting my templates out to Dreamweaver ten times faster than trying to build everything within CCS. Especially IF I want to use my own design, and Im only using CC to build the structure.
CCS also doesn't provide a way to make yoru site without templates, which CC happily provides that option. And IF I wanted to, its easier with CC to grab templates from the DB as well.
What I would like CC to do now, is to incorporate :
1) Set up forms for uploading files to the server
2) Calendar function ( to create a calendar)
why dont CCS users stay out of this thread? It doesn't benefit you, and evrything pretty much CCS users has offered are borderline "well, you get what you pay for".
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feha
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| Posted: 03/27/2003, 11:45 AM |
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I AGREE WITH ALFREDO!
regards
feha
[www.vision.to]
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DaveRexel
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| Posted: 03/27/2003, 12:35 PM |
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::
I agree with keeping discussion of CCS out of this thread. The wishes of customers who want to use CC are the focus here.
Firstly, how many of the posters/readers of this long thread have actually sent mail to support asking for the dev status of CC? That would be an obvious first step for those who care about CC.
I certainly like to use CC for simple tasks sometimes, just like I pick up the acoustic guitar if I don't feel like switching on the whole sound system. So an update to CC would be quite refreshing if it got a few more form types and kept the same simple GUI.
The words *in progress* for Includable Pages on
http://support.codecharge.com/updates.asp?product_id=1
do offer some hope that Yes has a development plan for CC.
Greetings
Dave
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angelo
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| Posted: 03/27/2003, 7:14 PM |
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I have to agree CC is an excellent piece of toolkit. CCS actually slows me down considerably.
Food for thought for Yes software. I bought CC within 20 mins of finding the site, I however wasnt as impressed with CCS, if I'd seen CCS first I actually wouldnt have bought the software.
CC is a little gem of kit, it doesn exactly what it's supposed to extremely quickly and in 2 years of use it's only crashed around twice on me, it's not perfect but it's bloody great at what it does.
They are both DIFFERENT tools, If Yessoftware is not intending on furthering CC at least sell it to another company to take forward. It's of serious use to many developers for creating the bare bone structure of web utilities, all it needs is a few more event slots such as number of record numbers being able to be brought back dynamically instead of hardcoded.
Small refinements would go a long way here!
Many of us don't need the fluffy bells and whistles of CCS.
As for CCS being used for more "serious" projects, I'm sorry but CCS is CC with added layers.
All I need is the core skeleton generated so I can quickly hand coded what is needed. Zero messing around. The learning curve for CC is very very light considering what it can do.
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DaveRexel
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| Posted: 03/27/2003, 10:46 PM |
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::
Well, if I had to choose I choose CCS anytime, if Yes only has time to upgrade CCS that suits me fine.
CC appeals to those with simple needs but CCS v2 with the new documentation is a powerhouse.
How many of the CCS detractors here have tried v2 and actually read all the docs? very few I suspect.
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No Name
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| Posted: 03/27/2003, 11:51 PM |
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CC_2 when used for ASP produces code for ASP_v.2 which is easily learned as opposed to ASP_v.3 which is produced by CCS.
ASP_2 is supported by all Win servers and also by ChilliSoft (now Sun) ASP that runs on Unix/Linux boxes, but ASP_3 will only run on the Win platform.
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Rip
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| Posted: 03/28/2003, 1:46 PM |
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Again, what is the point of you CCS users in posting in this thread? You guys are getting the updates you want and probably dont need, while CC users are left in the dust. You posting here isn't going to convince us in changing over to CCS. WE HAVE our reasons to USE CC, and no matter what we say or do, you cannot change that fact.
If you want CCS , then make your own thread and discuss its features there; or what you want.
THIS is for CC users, who have been neglected while CCS gets updated.
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Tony M
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| Posted: 03/28/2003, 4:44 PM |
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I repeat what I said in the SECOND REPLY to Sam...THE AUTHOR OF THIS THREAD...
================================================================
What about CodeCharge???
Author Tony M
Date Created 3/8/2003 10:04:07 PM
Message Sam
Why don't you email YesSoftware direct...for an answer?
...and let us all see their reply...or not
Good luck
Tony M
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beshoo
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| Posted: 03/28/2003, 5:54 PM |
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Tanks for all CC user NOT CCS user
As what CC users say please CCS users kip out and just play with CCS that you like
And please if you can not use a DW and u like the family face program CCS look like agley FrontPage You can NOT compeer FrontPage to DW cos the last one is the best
"What web can be"
and if you don’t have an idea I will let you know that the CCS has a lot of errors in the coding section .
and CCS team tell me that it is a bug in the coder and they can NOT fix it cos the coder is designed by another company and if you like I will put all messages that I have about this point to prove my words .
and I think as a VB programmer that codecharge CCS has a lot of this statement :
On Error Resume Next
OMG.
Please "Yes." We need some information about CC2.5 future we need a new CC look like CCS but NO IDE just like what we learn on CC2.5 and just update on the base at backend
And DONOT change the platform and the interface
Please add all fetcher the CC user need it as :
1- Themes maker
2- Upload to file or to Database and the function that this operation needs .
3- Use the delete chick BOX to delete a mutable records
4- And please let us have some control on how the one table will be
I mean I need to view one column in a 3 HTML column. I think you under stand me .
I don’t like to right the counter code every time to view my date as what I need.
5- Fix up the images problem .
6- Fix up that way to make some record in the first my mouse give up. I think drag and drop function will be wonderful.
7- I think you have a lot of wish lists from your client if you make a attitude survey u will have a good idea to start.
8- Please let us have more control about coding section NOT look like CCS but let the coder as it on CC but we have a control on some part of code in the one form but we don’t have a control on other part on this form .
In our case right now we have to go to php file and edit on it and ever time we have to regenerate the php file we have to re edit the file again .
9- add the mout important thing :
if I have 5 tables and all tables are same structure I have to make five pages to add or delete or any thing else .
whey you don’t made some thing like to pass the table name from the linke ore some thing and in this case we will have just one php page and it make a control on five Table in mySQL database.
I think you have my idea now.
10-Please improve the SQL commander that we have it in CC2.5.
11-please Note this :
improve the tree section that when we make like and index site we have to make some thing look like tree.
As EG : http://www.indexu.com think all of you know this program if you delete the parent I mean the parent of the records in this time all children will be deleted and we don’t have to right a special SQL code to improve that.
And a lot of thing please ask your customer about that and let us make the first stip.
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Sam
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| Posted: 03/28/2003, 6:37 PM |
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Hello Tony M and all...
Many CC users contacted YesSoftware about the future of CC.... NO RESPONSE from YesSoftware.
I know that YesSoftware is seeing this thread BUT they are just keeping their eyes and ears CLOSED. What can we do???
I would request YesSoftware that if they are not interested in the next release of CC or any enhancements on CC then they must tell us clearly and remove the following info from their support site:
News and Updates Product: CodeCharge
CodeCharge is currently being adapted to work with Netobjects Fusion 7.
CodeCharge websites (www.codecharge.com and support.codecharge.com) are being revamped and consolidated.
This message is on their site from last several months.. At least they can update us all about the percentage of progress of CodeCharge.
Thanks for all the inputs and keep on throwing your views w.r.t. CodeCharge.
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?
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| Posted: 03/30/2003, 1:09 AM |
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Ok what about codecharge team ? we need some info ?
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RonB
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| Posted: 03/30/2003, 4:07 AM |
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I'm not trying to prolong a discussion about wich one's better, cc or ccs. I just think people using CC, as I did for a long time, should realise that cc and ccs as they are now do not compete with eachother. Yes would be stupid if they made CC into a program that competes with another piece of software they make themselves.
I think CC users will have to accept that a lot of features will be restricted to ccs. This is not an uncommon thing to see in software land.
This has repercussions for cc development. CC will never have the rich features ccs has. So any requests for features ccs is using to advertise itself will probably never show up in cc. I wouldn't add them if it were my company. Why buy CCS if you can do the same with cc at half the price?
So even without comparing the two products it is only logicall for Yes to maintain as great a difference between the two as possible.
As a somewhat pessimistic view of things to come I suspect CC will stop being developed if CCS realy takes of. I think it will be nearly impossible to have the same team develop and maintain two completely different codebases when the amount of people buying cc will diminish. It would become to costly to spend time on a piece of software that isn't selling. I ofcourse have no idea what the breakdown is on people buying cc or ccs. But if ccs is starting to sell more then cc I think you will gradualy see a decline in cc developments. At the moment is seems Yes only has these two pieces of software wich leaves them vulnarable. So maybe they will drop cc and start on a new project or they will start to put out commercial extensions for ccs as a new source of income.
The smart thing to do, in my humble opinion, would be to produce a stripped dowm version of CCS( CCS Light?) at a lower price wich they could use to lure in customers and a professional version wich has the option to extend it using comercial extensions. Another area of interest would be ready to use projects. I think if Yes would produce a project like nuke with the same level of excelence they could do some serious buisiness. Being able to use CCS as a administration and extension tool for such projects would be a great bonus to buying the program. The example project that come with ccs now are nice. But it is evidend they are cc projects converted to ccs. CCS can do a lot more then these sample projects seem to show.
Ron
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No Name
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| Posted: 03/30/2003, 9:13 AM |
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RonB,
we know that you are a developer who prefers CCS. But there are great many of those who like the SIMPLICITY of CC. If one wants "bells-n-whistles" one can modify their templates in Dreamweaver (or something they prefer).
And the CCS price tag, it is something a lot of non-coders that need to do a couple of database driven websites for their club, church, or what ever small task, cannot afford. As you know from YS site the proposed future pricing for CCS id US$500. And the 1 year maintenance of US$150. What a ripp-off. Just like Microsoft.
------------------
The new release of Namo WebEditor v5.5, US$99, has integrated ability to create database driven websites if ASP & PHP. Maybe that is where the unhappy CC user will turn.
---------------------------------------------
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RonB
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| Posted: 03/30/2003, 11:56 AM |
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I was trying to paint a picture wich I think is most likely to happen. It doesn't matter what I like or dislike. I liked cc a lot and did the first company intranet with it. It's a great tool if... you see it as it is. I've just seen a lot of requests for features that are already present in ccs.
It doesn't matter if you like cc or ccs. It's the economy that counts.
I wasn't trying to get people to use ccs I was just trying to extrapolate future developments based on assumptions that might very well turn out to be wrong. Who knows?
I'm not saying I do not want Yes to develop cc further. I just think it would make more sense to adapt a version of CCS for the market now catered to by cc. I think that would be easier to do then to maintain two different ways of handling stuff.
I'll say it once more... CC and CCS are great and I understand that the learning curve that comes with CCS can be overkill for people who just want to do fast and simple database driven stuff. That's why I think if they(Yes) decide to go with CCS, they should put out a "light" version of ccs for the CC market.
Ron
Ron
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beshoo
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| Posted: 03/30/2003, 12:53 PM |
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I think the "light" idea is good
in my side
CCS without "IDE" is good .
I mean we nead CC interface .
that is all and thay can make 2 option in a same prodact
With IDE or WithOUT. agly IDE/.
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beshoo
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| Posted: 03/30/2003, 12:53 PM |
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I think the "light" idea is good
in my side
CCS without "IDE" is good .
I mean we nead CC interface .
that is all and thay can make 2 option in a same prodact
With IDE or WithOUT. agly IDE/.
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John
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| Posted: 03/31/2003, 9:50 AM |
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Hi Sam,
I did get some info on this from a product manager at Yes. I was finding lots of bugs with CC in ASP.NET/C# but still wanted to purchase the program. The bottom line is that I was told to download CCS as most of the dev effort was on this (although he did not mention that CC is getting phased out, it sure felt that way).
Good luck...
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No Name
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| Posted: 03/31/2003, 9:56 AM |
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John, would you want to develop and support 2 similar applications, one that gets you US$149 and on that gets you US$499 with US$149 for yearly support? -- I would choose the later if I were YesSoftware.
It's a shame, but money talks.
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Angelo
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| Posted: 03/31/2003, 4:00 PM |
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You know something, I would pay $449 for codecharge, however not for codecharge studio. Why? Becuase CC lets me work far faster and creates what I need it to create, the structure and working to a dynamic site. I can then take the templates and code and customise it happily.
CCS tries to offer more complex layouts but to me I spend more time removing what it generates.
CCS drives me up the wall, I don't need 90% of the fluffy bells they added.
If yes software ever gets round to reading this offer us two versions of CCS
1 with IDE
1 without
Charge the same for both if you like, I know which I would pick!
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Mark
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| Posted: 03/31/2003, 6:18 PM |
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Angelo,
I too would like to have a more capable version of CC2. CCS is good but the overly complex (do it all) UI sucks. It tries to be the Dreamweaver/FrontPage/or what ever already more capable application exists -- talk about re-inventing the wheel.
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No Name
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| Posted: 03/31/2003, 6:23 PM |
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When I originally got CC 1.0 I was impressed by its simplicity and what I could do with it in a very short time. I got the CodeChargePro so that I can get a great and ever improving application generator (not User Interface generator). Instead I (and others) became guineapigs and beta testers for yet another product - CCStudio.
I am keeping CC2 but will NOT further support CCS at this time.
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Bil Simser
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| Posted: 03/31/2003, 7:04 PM |
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I've read this thread and there seems to be a few key things to look at.
I haven't contacted Yes to ask them what their position is on the lifecycle for CC. I'm hoping someone in this thread will (perhaps the originator) and report back for the rest of us.
I've been watching this product for the last year or so and am currently evaluating it to use as a kick-starter for creating consistent .NET app frameworks. CC excels at this and is a perfect little app (I'll ignore the person who said that only real programmers use CCS, that's just plain silly).
I'm at a crossroads though. Yes doesn't seem to show interest in CC (other than the latest update). This is an extremely active and full thread, yet no comment from the vendor? Makes me think either a) they don't respond to messages here b) they don't care about the CC product line or c) some other reason. I can't invest in this app unless I know the future direction or if it's a dead product. I'm sure everyone who has an investment already in the tool doesn't want it to just stagnate now. It's a great little app but as has been demonstrated in this thread, there are a lot of great new features, forms, etc. that could be added.
Anyways, I hope someone could shed some light on this soon as I don't see Yes software coming in and making their plans known. Thanks.
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